Name Jennie or Jean?

[Linwood247]

I wonder if anyone can help me solve solve this puzzle?
John Ernest Woodfine married Jennie Ellison in 1905. That's her name on freeBMD marriages and on his RAF papers, which also gives his children's names and dob. The 1911 census gives her birthplace as St. Helens in abt 1884. The only one by that name born about that time was in Prestwich. Their son, John Edward, b.1908, died in the blitz when the Vauxhall plant in Luton was bombed, August 1940. His estate was left to "Jean Woodfine married woman". I would think for an inheritance you would have to use a legal name. A Jean Woodfine died in Luton in 1953, age 71, approximately the right age. I can't find any Woodfine married to a Jean. What do I infer from this? Did she change her name from Jennie to Jean? What am I missing? Thanks for any help or suggestions.

[dickiesam]

Hi,
If she was born in or near St Helens about 1884 her birth would normally have been registered at Prescot. This is a pretty good fit...
Birth: JANE ELLISON
Birth year: 1883; Dec qtr
District: PRESCOT, Lancashire
Volume: 8B; Page: 672

Jinnie and Jenny are 'familiar' variations for Jane.

[dickiesam]

If you have Jennie's marriage cert was her father's name Thomas?

1901: RG13 Piece 3522 Folio 115 Page 9
Address: 78 Liverpool Road, St Helens
Thomas Ellison Head 52 1849 Sheet Glass Packer - St Helens, Lancashire
Alice Ellison Wife 48 1853 Green Grocer - West Derby, Lancashire
Elizabeth Ellison Dtr U/m 25 1876 - St Helens, Lancashire
Jane Ellison Dtr 19 1882 - St Helens, Lancashire
Annie A Ellison Dtr 16 1885 - St Helens, Lancashire
William Ellison Son 14 1887 - St Helens, Lancashire
Joshua Ellison Son 12 1889 - St Helens, Lancashire
Edward Ellison Son 8 1893 - St Helens, Lancashire
Edward Ellison Son 1 1890 - Earlestown, Lancashire.

[Linwood247]

Wow, quick replies and research Dickiesam! Sorry, I don't have the marriage certificate, don't know anything about her really. If she was actually a Jane could her name have been recorded as Jennie at the marriage, a case of reporting whatever you wanted your name to be?

[dickiesam]

It is possible she preferred Jennie and could have been a Jennie for most of her life. The marriage maybe online and perhaps one of our eagle-eyed crew can find it.

Marriages Dec 1905: ELLISON, Jennie married WOODFINE, John Ernest - W. Derby 8b 991 [Register Office or Registrar Attended]

If her marriage is not online I suggest you purchase the cert from the GRO at http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ It will cost £9.25 [abt $15]. That will give you her father's name and occupation as well as clues such as siblings as witnesses etc.

[Linwood247]

True, getting the marriage certificate would let me know who she was but still wouldn't tell me if this woman is the Jean who inherited as there were no Jean Ellisons born around that time anywhere. Feeling frustrated and confused!

[dickiesam]

What was her forename on her son's birth certificate? Although John Edward may have always heard his mother referred to as Jinnie he may have assumed her name was really Jean when he drew up his will. A solicitor would have probably queried the name Jinnie.

This is her son's casualty-of-war death...
Name: John Edward Woodfine
Rank: Civilian
Date of Death: 31/08/1940
Age: 31
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: LUTON, MUNICIPAL BOROUGH
Additional Information: Son of Jean Woodfine, of 56 St. Ethelbert Avenue. Injured 30 August 1940, at Vauxhall Motor Works; died at Luton and Dunstable Hospital.
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casua ... N%20EDWARD

There is only one John Edward Woodfine born around 1908 +/- 5 years and that was Jennie Woodfine's son. You could also take a flyer and get that 1953 death cert. It could tell you if she was a widow or hopefully a married woman and name her spouse.

[dickiesam]

Because the additional information on the death of John Edward in 1940 does not mention his father, nor apparently his father, I wonder if his parents were separated? This death is a good match for the father...
Death JOHN E WOODFINE
Birth year: 1884
Age: 85
Death year: 1969; Mar qtr
District: GREENWICH, London; Volume 5B; Page 458

There is only one John E Woodfine born 1884 +/- 3 years...
Births Dec 1883: WOODFINE, John Ernest - W. Derby 8b 582

[Linwood247]

I also suspected John Ernest and Jennie were separated. He joined the RFC/RAF in WW1, was demobbed in April 1920, and joined the merchant navy that August. I have him on crew lists in WW2 up to the early 1950s, out of Southampton. So his wife and kids hardly saw him, makes sense that John Edward would leave what he had to his mother. I believe that is John Ernest's death in Greenwich in 1969. I'd love to know what took them to Luton. For war work in the Vauxhall factory? I would have thought there'd be work in Liverpool during WW2.
Thanks dickiesam for your ideas and suggestions.

[MaryA]

Hi Linda and welcome to the forum.

Just a couple of questions - do you have the actual Will or only the Probate details from the calendar, which states "Administration Llandudno 15 October to Jean Woodfine married woman "

I would suggest that if you don't already have it, then you should send for the actual Will, details of how are here http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... ilit=wills and hopefully it will give an address for her.

Also if you believe the death to be her then also the death certificate may give you her address before she died, and details of who registered the death.

The trail then, hopefully would be to check the electoral registers to see who else was living at the same address.

Sounds a bit of a palaver I know but perhaps on your next visit over I know you sometimes manage to spend a couple of days "down south" researching so it might be possible for you to visit the Bedfordshire archives and check this out?

Look forward to seeing you again on your next visit.

[Hilary]

As the entry in the Probate index is for an Administration (not a will) this in indicates that the person died intestate( no will) and somone in this case Jean Woodfine applied to the court to administrate his estate, it doesn't mean that he left it to her just that she applied and was accepted to administer the estate.

Administrations will give an address of the person administering the estate but not a lot of other information.

The names stated in the Probate Index if there is a will are the executors named in the will they are not necessarily the beneficiaries of the will. If it is an Administration the person named is the person the court has agreed will administer the estate.

[MaryA]

And that's why she's in charge of educating us

[Linwood247]

Well! This is why it's so useful to have other people's input. Crowd sourcing is the way to go. I hadn't even stopped to think what probated implied. Thank you Hilary for that information, I know nothing about wills, but am going to educate myself.
And thanks Mary for the suggestions re death cert and electoral registers. Yes, I will have to include Bedfordshire on my list of places to visit - it's getting longer, there are so many places that I think I need to retire, come home, and pursue this full time! Many thanks to everyone for your guidance.

[dickiesam]

I'd love to know what took them to Luton. For war work in the Vauxhall factory? I would have thought there'd be work in Liverpool during WW2.

I seem to remember that men who possessed particular skills were not always recruited into military service. I know shunters and drivers on the railways were often not conscripted, and certain factory machine operators were also 'excused' if their skill was necessary for the war effort. Our next door neighbour, a man in his late 20s, was a multi-head lathe machinist who was moved to work in a munitions factory down south. Such workers could be sent anywhere there was a need and that may be how John Edward Woodfine came to be in Luton. If his parents were separated he may have brought his mum down to Luton so he could look after her as she would have been in her late 50s.

And... St Ethelbert's Avenue is still there!
https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=ssl#q=st+ ... enue+luton
Just did a drive-by on Google Earth!

[Linwood247]

Wonderful, dickiesam! I've never thought of looking on Google Earth for addresses, only on maps. It's great to be able to see the house relatives lived in. You must he right about his work, he must have had some needed skill. I've read the Vauxhall factory built the Churchill tanks as well as Bedford trucks for the military. I'm thinking of contacting the factory to ask if they have any old employment records. Probably not, but hey, nothing ventured nothing gained!

[Bertieone]

Hi Lin,

Reserved Occupations would have been the category John likely belonged to, as DS posted, persons taken out of conscription for the war effort at home,

the link has some photo's of the bomb damage, Air raid photo gallery.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/threecounties/peop ... anks.shtml

[Linwood247]

Thanks so much, Bert, very interesting info and great photos. Who knows, one of those workers could be my Woodfine.
Linda

[n3ttl3]

Don't know if this will be of much help to you - however, my Nin was always called Jinnie (I grew up thinking it was short for Virginia) - her name was Jane. Her daughter 'Jean' was also christened Jane! Another daughter 'May' was Mary Ann, I think there was only my Uncle Chris got called by his proper name AARGH! they don't help you years later, do they!

[Fledge]

I have a Jean in my family who changes back and forth from Jennie in various documents, but it's most definitely the same person.

We also had a friend called Ginny, as above; I thought all along she was 'Virginia' - she signed Christmas cards 'Jenny' and her actual name was Jane. All very confusing.

[Linwood247]

Thanks for your replies Fledge and n3ttl3, your experiences with the name lend support to the theory that she was, in fact, a Jane. At least I now have another line of enquiry to pursue. Thanks for your help.