Shepherd/Carter Family Tree

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello MaryA

Thank you for the information, apologies but I don't remember mentioning Merseyside. Some of the sites that I visited for BMD did not mention "Liverpool" as a place of happening, only Manchester or Lancashire.

I will wait and see what transpires between now and the New Year and then plan to visit the Liverpool/Manchester Records Offices. I had noticed the different levels of transcribed material over all the visited sites.

Best Regards
Allan

[allanpshepherd123]

I have received this morning the birth certificate of my great grandfather Ralph Shepherd which confirms he was born 19/01/1843 at Oldham Street Manchester. His father (my great great grandfather) is Ralph Shepherd and his mother is Sarah Shepherd formerly Collins who married 04/02/1833 at St Mary the Virgin Prestwich Manchester. All spellings are as shown. Registration district is The Salford Union and the sub district is Regent Road Salford.

I notice that the Manchester Records Office is temporarily closed and not open until Spring 2014 so I will have to wait until then. I have what I think is my great great great grandfather/grandmother Robert Shepherd (Jnr)/Elizabeth Clegg who married 02/09/1810 and not long after Ralph was born 02/03/1811 his mother Elizabeth (Betty) died 04/04/1811 and Ralph remarried Elizabeth Roberts 29/01/1817 at St Chads Rochdale. Yorkshire Street is a common denomination.

Time will hopefully tell.

Best Regards
Allan

[allanpshepherd123]

Realised that last post second paragraph duplicated.

Made contact with Manchester and Salford Family History Forum.

Started again to correlate some information and I found this on Family Search...any thoughts? Ralph's parents were George and Ann. Sarah's parents were William and Mary Collings. Ralph and Sarah had 4 children, Ann 1833, Mary 1835, William 1838 and George 1840 besides Ralph born 1843.

Name: Ralph Shepherd
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 18 Apr 1813
Christening Place: Bradfield, York, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: George Shepherd
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Ann Shepherd
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01627-9
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 6343735
Reference ID:

Best Regards
Allan

[Hilary]

Bradfield is/was an enormous parish to the north, west of Sheffield. Bradfield parish registers are at Sheffield Archives but Bradfield also has a History Society who I seem to remember also have access to the records. They may be able to tell you whereabouts in the parish this Shepherd family lived, father's occupation and more importantly they may have census or parish information as to whether the family remained in the area. I have copied the information about the local society for you.

Bradfield Historical Society

Bradfield Historical Society is a non-profit organisation that researches and records the local history of the Bradfield area. The society holds various events throughout the year.

Meets at Low Bradfield Village Hall, S6 (Monday).



http://www.bradfield-yorks-pc.gov.uk/



Address:
27 Chase Road
Sheffield
South Yorkshire
S6 6RA (View Map)
Contact Name: Mr M Nunn, Secretary
Telephone: 0114 233 7463
Email: bradfield.history@mypostoffice.co.uk




Service/Activity Details:
Low Bradfield Village Hall
Sheffield
South Yorkshire
S6 6LB (View Map)
Disabled Access Details: Wheelchair Accessible; Wheelchair Accessible Toilet;

Days and Times: 1st Monday in the month at 7.30pm (except Jan & Feb, 3rd Mon when 1st is a Bank Holiday), please contact for further details


Publications: Bygones of Bradfield, vols 1-3; Programme of events; transcriptions of local census returns, births, baptisms and burials

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Hilary

Thank you for the additional information, I have sent Mr Nunn an email. Any further information and I will post same.

Best Regards
Allan

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Hilary

Malcolm Nunn very kindly emailed me with the information below...any thoughts in particular when and where George and Ann married. Unfortunately the records do not include Ann's surname. I have searched "Family Search" and a George Shepherd married a number of Ann's from 1801 through to 1812 with various surnames... 1801 Millard in Bristol, 1802 Pink in Hampshire, 1802 Browning in Bedford, 1803 Pickering in Nottingham, 1804 Borer in Liverpool, 1806 Sparks in Lincolnshire and 1812 Lonnon in London. Any further thoughts as to establish which is possibly George's wife?

"Hello Allan

I have checked out details of Ralph as follows:
Ralph son of George & Ann baptised at Bradfield April 11th 1813 of (what appears to be) Hollm
I do not recognise this place name but I have found other Shepherd's around the same time from Hollow Meadows so maybe this is some form of corruption of that name.

If you are not familiar with that area it is at the top of the Rivelin Valley on the A57 road from Sheffield to Manchester just before it reaches the South Yorkshire/Derbyshire boundary. I know that there was a number of Shepherd's living in the Derwent Valley before the reservoirs were built and their farms are now under the reservoir.

I have also checked baptisms +/- 10 years of 1813 and there are no more Shepherd's with parents of George & Ann

I have also checked the marriage records from 1800 to 1815 at Bradfield and there is no record of the marriage of George & Ann. I can only assume that they would have been married wherever Ann came from and they only had a short stay in our area."

Best Regards
Allan

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Hilary

Went beyond 1800 and remembered a previous post by me of a George Shepherd marrying a Ann Wormald 06/03/1797 in Pontefract West Yorkshire!! Would this possibly tie in with Malcolm's thoughts?

Best Regards
Allan

[Hilary]

I thought Malcolm would help. I knew him when I was. Peak Park Ranger in the area.

Pontefract is quite a way away so I wouldn't really think so. To me there is little to contact your Ralph to this couple. If I remember your Ralph doesn't say he was born in Yorkshire.

Have you looked for a George and Ann in the 1841 census around the area?

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Hilary

Only thought about it late this afternoon so not had chance to visit local library, will try in the week. Ralph seems so elusive which is more intriguing to say the least!! Maybe his true place of birth was never actually recorded as "true".

Best Regards
Allan

[Hilary]

My other thought about the Sheffield area is that there is not a lot online. Also Bradfield parish borders Derbyshire and again not a lot for there online. I don't know if all Manchester is online so he could have been baptised at a church not yet online or its registers might have been destroyed at some time.

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Hilary

Received a reply from Malcolm regarding a email I sent him, reply below.

"Hello Allan

Further to recent e-mail I have checked out your request:

Elizabeth dr of George Shepherd of Oughtibridge baptised at Bradfield 01/01/1797
Joseph son of George Shepherd of Oughtibridge baptised at Bradfield 24/03/1799
Christopher son of George Shepherd of Oughtibridge baptised at Bradfield 12/07/1801

There is no other information on the baptism records.

On the 1841 Census Returns I have found a George Shepherd born c1781. 1841 Census adult ages were rounded down to nearest 5 or 0 years) living in Ecclesall but is is with another family (no Shepherds) so this may or may not be your George, none of the other names you mention are on the 1842 and in Elizabeth's case she would probably have been married by that date. I have also checked 1851 Census and again cannot find any of them.

From this latest information I have my doubts as to whether Ralph born 1813 was belonging to this family as there is 12 years age difference between Christopher and Ralph and maybe just a coincidence that the fathers name is George.

Malcolm"

Looks like I am possibly back to square one!!

Best Regards
Allan

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello to all

Made contact with a Rob Shepherd via Malcolm Nunn and his Bradfield FHS, any further thoughts would be gratefully appreciated.


"Hello Allan

Many thanks for your email

My Shepherd ancestors are equally elusive but I may have a connection to Ralph Shepherd:

1. My direct ancestor William Shepherd is listed on the various census returns as being born in Hulme, Manchester around 1801 (although I've not as yet found a baptism for him) He was married three times; his last marriage certificate shows that his father was George Shepherd, a shoemaker

2. I could only find one George Shepherd, shoemaker, on the 1841 census, but in the wrong district (was living in Ardwick, born Scotland) and was living with a James Shepherd, agricultural labourer. I discounted him as I know my William lived with a brother James and the addresses didn't tally

3. I looked then at the trade directories for Hulme and found only one George Shepherd, shoemaker, in the Hulme district with several listed addresses over the years

4. I turned to these addresses in the Manchester Rate Books (on findmypast) and used this as a surrogate census. It listed George Shepherd, but on occasions listed immediately adjacent (the next house/rooms in the same street) other Shepherd's including William, Joseph and Ralph. I wondered if they could have been his sons. I also found in the same street the death of a George Shepherd, aged 35, a hatter and wondered if he too could have been a son.

5. I used the census looking forward and found Joseph Shepherd. Previously living in Hulme and having children born there. His birthplace was given as Oughtibridge (within Bradfield Parish, Yorks)

6. I wondered if George the shoemaker may have lived in Oughtibridge and had other children there. I found a baptism for the right year for Joseph Shepherd in Bradfield, and also baptisms for John 1791, George 1793 (which tallied with the age of the George, hatter who died), Elizabeth 1797, Joseph 1799, Christopher, 1801. I could not find William but the census had suggested that he was born in Hulme. There was a Ralph in 1813. I was not sure this one was also a son of George the shoemaker as there was quite a gap between this and the earlier baptisms

7. How to tie up these baptisms with George the shoemaker, and with my William? I found Interesting article in Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser - Saturday 03 March 1827 about George Shepherd, hatter, who rented a shop in Deansgate (possibly also living there) He was in ill health. In an attempt to avoid paying for rent arrears he and (presumed) siblings removed stock from the shop. Other names mention John Shepherd, Thomas Shepherd, William Shepherd, Christopher Shepherd, Joseph Shepherd. This seemed to tie in the various names I'd found. I 'd also found in the rate books George the shoemaker, living one year immediately adjacent to William Shepherd.

8. I think that there is enough good circumstantial evidence to suggest that George Shepherd, the shoemaker, had children John, George, Elizabeth, Joseph, Christopher, William and James. He'd lived in Oughtibridge and then moved to Hulme. Their William and James were born. The earliest reference I have for him in Hulme is 1813. It is possible that the family may have moved backwards and forwards.

9. Given that his eldest children were born in Oughtibridge I wondered if George the shoemaker could have been married there. The IGI has only one entry, George marrying Ann Fosterd 3rd June 1789. I've asked for a copy from the marriage register to see if other details are given. It it said that he was a shoemaker I think that would clinch things.

So, how about a link to your Ralph?

I wonder if the fact there is a Ralph living adjacent to one of the George Shepherd's listed in the rate books in Clarence Street in 1836 (but only in this year) could mean he was related to George the shoemaker, in the same way as I made the connections above? George the shoemaker lived in Barrack Street in Hulme, but earlier rate books had suggested that George the shoemaker had a workshop in Clarence Street. There is also the baptism in Oughtibridge where the others were baptised. Ralph baptised in 1813.

Not sure if this is a bit too late for him to be connected to the others, but possible. However, you mention this Ralph was the son of George Shepherd and Ann Wormald. I note from the IGI George Shepherd married Ann Wormald in Pontefract, Yorks in 1797. If you are certain that Ralph, 1813 was the son of George Shepherd and Ann Wormald then there probably is no connection (as my George had children at least as early as 1791)

I'd be interested to hear what you think of the above, if you have any information that suggests your George Shepherd was a shoemaker, and indeed if Ralphs baptism entry lists his mothers maiden name.

Best Regards

Rob Shepherd
Sunderland UK"

So many possible connections?

Best Regards
Allan

[SarahFenn]

Hello Allan,

I've just started tracing my family tree. I'm not sure if you're still researching your side?
My Great Great Great Grandfather is Ralph Shepherd (b) 1843 his son Ralph Alfred Shepherd (b) 1874 is my Great Great Grandfather who died on the Lusitania.

If you have any information you could share with me it would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Sarah

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. I'm sorry this post appears to have been overlooked.

Allan is a current member of the society and has been an active member of the forum, might I suggest that if you hover your mouse over the "email" button on one of his posts, it will show the email address across the bottom of the page and you could send him a message direct, perhaps he may have notifications turned off which is why he hasn't responded yet.

[SarahFenn]

Thank you for the welcome and the tip MaryA
(I'm accessing the site from my iPad and can't see an email address for Allen)

I'm very curious to see if he found out what became of Hannah Margaret and her children after Ralph Alfred Shepherd was lost on the Lusitania.
I've only recently started to trace my family tree so I'm struggling a little bit, especially having limited information about my family history.
It would be great to see how far he got tracing the family

Thanks again,
Sarah

[MaryA]

Hope he pops by and replies soon then.