Looking FOR Christopher SMITH B. about 1895

[IDIFER]

Evenin All, bit of a wall at my end and looking for a lot of help. My maternal G/father was Christopher SMITH B. about 1895 and believed local to bootle. He is shown in 1911 Census Living in Seaforth St. Bootle with mother - Mary. He married Christina DOHERTY in 1913 and the last of their children would appear to have been born in 1926. Its possible that he was a merchant seaman but I can't find out any more about him or his parents at he moment, So a shove in the right direction REALLY would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[MaryA]

What occupations were given on his marriage certificate and the birth certificates of his children?

And did it give a father's name on the marriage certificate, or was the space blank?

[IDIFER]

Apologies - occupations are shown as being a plumber and later on it is shown as M/Fireman which is probably Marine Fireman or stoker. No details of his father as yet, That's the way I'm trying to go at the moment

[erika]

Was Christina Doherty previously married to a Murdock MacKenzie?
There is a marriage at St Matthew Bootle on August 3rd 1908. She was a machinist age 22

[MaryA]

Is there anybody who remembers his siblings? In 1901 he is 6 years old, mother Mary is 40 (given as 47 in 1911) and there is a 13 year old Lizzie at home.

The 1911 census gives a lot of information - Mary was born Skerries, Ireland and has given birth to 8 children, although only 4 surviving. Also she appears to have been married 30 years - as she was widowed, I would suspect that means 30 years before 1911 although that might be incorrect.

So it is worth considering the family in 1891 at 31 Maun? Street, Bootle which has
Thomas Smith Head M 37 Labourer Ireland
Mary Wife M 37 Ireland
Annie daur 10 Bootle
Thomas son 8 "
Mary daur 6 "
James son 4 "
Eliz daur 2 "
Peter son 1 "
RG12; Piece: 2971; Folio: 127; Page: 45

But this could only be confirmed with more information, family memories of his siblings and father from the marriage certificate.

Edited - having looked at the image again I suspect the years of marriage reads 30, not 20. MA

[dickiesam]

For info re the 1910+1 census... Mary Smith, widow, is shown as being from Skerries. This is a small town in north County Dublin.

She is at the same address with two children in 1901:
RG13 Piece: 3460 Folio: 102 Page: 42
Address: 32 Seaforth Street, Bootle Cum Linacre, Lancashire
SMITH, Mary Wife Married 40 1861 Bag Maker Jute Factory - Ireland
SMITH, Lizzie Dtr 13 1888 - Bootle, Lancashire
SMITH, Christopher Son 6 1895 - Bootle, Lancashire.

[MaryA]

Apart from Christopher's marriage certificate the other way to discover his father's name is from his birth certificate, you are lucky that Christopher is not the most common name so there are only two possibles and I would expect it to be the second of these.

Births Dec 1894
Smith Christopher Gordon W. Derby 8b 412

Births Mar 1895
Smith Christopher W. Derby 8b 477

[dickiesam]

There are only 2 births between 1894 and 1896....

Births Dec 1894: Smith, Christopher Gordon - W. Derby 8b 412
Births Mar 1895: Smith, Christopher - W. Derby 8b 477

If Christopher never used the name Gordon or initial G I think it would be worth taking a chance on the 1895 cert from the GRO specifying his mother's forename.

[Hilary]

The Christopher Gordon one has a baptism on Ancestry and entry on 1911 and he isn't yours so I would agree it's the second one.

[erika]

Just looked on UKBMD and found a marriage fpr
Christopher J Smith and Christina Dougherty in 1913 at West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended.
Could the J be relevant and I know all the spellings change for names

Has Chris got the marriage cert?

[MaryA]

Has Chris got the marriage cert?

Asked that question, no answer as yet though.

[dickiesam]

Hi Chris,
Concerned about the marriage you quoted and that Erika found...
Marriages Jun 1913: Smith, Christopher J married Dougherty, Christina - W.Derby 8b 865

Are you sure this is the correct marriage given that the J doesn't appear in either 1901 or 1911 or in a birth registration for that time-span?

[IDIFER]

Apologies to all messaging in my break and then I am committed for some hours, the marriage to Christina was in 1913 and she did not marry again, the initial J can't be found anywhere else. Iam not in favour od Christopher G. You lot are A-MAZ ING. Sorry if i am not able to speak again tonight, but I will catch up with you all tomorrow. Thank you all so much.

[MaryA]

Please let us know the details from the marriage certificate when you have it, to confirm his father's name.

[IDIFER]

Ok - trying to reply to it all now, I do not believe that Christina was ever married to anyone other than Christopher.

At the moment I have no other family members who can help, but the word is out.

That THOMAS and the children mentioned in the 1891 Census sounds very promising, I will spend some time looking at that.

I am working my way around the other children ( his siblings ) in an effort to find out a bit more about him.

The marriage cert. is on it's way to me and I have decided to take a chance on Christopher as opposed to Christopher Gordon.

Thanks for all the help so far, obviously there are others who need the help, but if anyone has anything further, it would be very much appreciated, thanks again everyone

[Hilary]

Do you know when Christopher died?

[Hilary]

The reason I ask is that on Find my Past there is a sea men's card for a Christopher Smith born in Bootle at about the right time. It is not the Christopher Gordon Smith as he has a different number and card.

However the Christopher Smith one says he's deceased and there is death at sea on the Maritime Deaths for him. This Christopher appears to have died in 1925 which is why I wondered if you knew when your Christopher died.

It is possible that the seaman's card has a photo would you have one to compare it to?

[Hilary]

Did Christopher and Christine have 4 daughters Mary j, Margaret, Christina and Winifred? I have given no birth years in case these are not your family. All have mother's maiden name Doherty.

Did Christina die as a baby? She has the same address as the Christopher who died in 1925 as a marine death.

Depending on where you live check whether your library service has access to Find my past or buy yourself a few credits and check out the seaman's card and death.

Little Christina's burial is recorded on Ancestry most libraries in the UK have access to Ancestry.

[MaryA]

Great stuff tying in the child with the father Hilary, that should confirm or otherwise whether it is the right person or not.

[dickiesam]

The reason I ask is that on Find my Past there is a sea men's card for a Christopher Smith born in Bootle at about the right time. It is not the Christopher Gordon Smith as he has a different number and card.

However the Christopher Smith one says he's deceased and there is death at sea on the Maritime Deaths for him. This Christopher appears to have died in 1925 which is why I wondered if you knew when your Christopher died.

It is possible that the seaman's card has a photo would you have one to compare it to?

Using the same Discharge Number for the Christopher Smith from Bootle who died on 30th June 1925, there is another card marked just C Smith... same man, also marked deceased. Apparently died at sea aboard the SS Melita. The given date of birth is 25th December 1893, but he may have fibbed when signing on.
http://www.greatships.net/melita.html

As Hilary said there is a death in the GRO Maritime Death Index, so there should be a death certificate available. GRO Marine Death Indices (1903 to 1965), Page 69.

And the card that Hilary referred to does have a photo!