Joseph Miles, brewer and Charles Maddox, bricklayer

[Gwebb1]

Hi everyone.

I'm trying to make a link between Joseph Miles, a Liverpool brewer in the late 1790s and early 1800s, and Charles Maddox, a Liverpool bricklayer from the Scotland Road area who died aged 28 years in 1803.

Charles made a will in 1801, his executors being his wife, Margaret, and Joseph Miles, to whom Charles appeared to leave everything, apart from 2 small legacies. Margaret could use 'household goods' as long as she didn't re-marry within 1 year of Charles's death.
My queries are:
How would a 27-year-old bricklayer from Scotland Road acquire 'massuages and dwelling houses, land and premises' to warrant a will and can I find out what properties were involved? His estate 'did not exceed £300'.

Why would he leave his estate to Joseph Miles who appears to have no connection with the family? (I understand from other sites that Joeseph may have been quite well-known in Liverpool - has anybody come across him, his wife, Mary Johnson, or son who I understand moved to London and had something to do with the book trade?

Charles made provision for his father (who died in 1827), his own children and a brother called Robert whom I had never heard of and cannot trace. No mention of his mother - she may have died before 1801 but there is some evidence she may have had another child in 1806 (also called Charles!). I've posted an earlier message on the forum about this confused family situation.

I'd be very grateful for any comments.

Regards,
Glen Webb

[MaryA]

Came across something like this in a line I was researching and found that the two men were indeed related although quite distantly and although they lived miles apart appeared to have had a good working relationship, somehow. Still under investigation, but this can happen.

However, are you positive that his messuages etc. were left to Joseph or could it be that he was just Executor? could you please translate the Will for us to see exactly the wording used.

How would a 27-year-old bricklayer from Scotland Road acquire 'massuages and dwelling houses, land and premises' to warrant a will and can I find out what properties were involved? His estate 'did not exceed £300'.

Have you checked newspapers, both for mention of either name, or sale of dwellings?
Have you also checked other Wills for mention of him, perhaps he was a beneficiary in somebody else's Will.

(I understand from other sites that Joeseph may have been quite well-known in Liverpool

Has your query been posted on another forum, could you please give a link to this to ensure there is no duplication of research, alternatively if he was a well known figure in Liverpool, what information and from which sites?

Have you checked graves? who is buried with him and who with Joseph?

Not much in the way of results at present but you never know something might provide a small clue.

[Gwebb1]

Hi Mary - as always, thanks for your prompt reply.

Words on Will that make me feel Charles Maddox left everything to Joseph Miles, having made him and Margaret Maddox (his wife) executors:

'I give desire and bequeath unto Joseph Miles of Liverpool aforesaid Brewer his heirs executors and Administrators all and singular my messuages or dwellinghouses Land and Premises (freehold or leasehold) and also all my Household Goods and furniture Plate Linen and China Stock in Trade outstanding debts homes out of interest and all and singular other my Estate ...........To hold to him his heirs Executors Administrators for ever.' Dots refer to a bit I can't read very well.

However, the will goes on to say Joseph, his heirs etc should 'permit' Charles's wife to have the 'use and enjoyment' of all his household goods during her 'natural life' and a later bit states that after the wife's death or re-marriage, Joseph should 'sell and disperse' the household goods to maintain and educate Charles's children. Perhaps I did misread it earlier and Joeph Miles is in fact just an Executor - something to do with the legal poistion of women as to why he had more authority over the estate than the wife, perhaps?

I haven't come across Charles being a benficiary of other wills but this is something I could explore in more detail.

Site I got infor. re: Joseph Miles was liverpoolhistorysocietyquestions.wordpress.com - I just googled Joseph Miles brewer Liverpool and a post from 2009 came up. It said Joseph Miles was possibly born in Westmorland, married Mary Johnson at St Pauls in 1781 and they had a son called John who subsequently moved to Hampstead and inherited a publishing business from his uncle, Joseph Johnson (1739-1809) who had been born in Everton.

What newspapers would it be best to search through and would I need to come to the Record Office to see these?

Sorry for the long post and all the typing errors it is likely to contain!

Glen

[Gwebb1]

One final point: I have sent for the will of Charles's wife who died in 1821 so that might tell me more but anything anyone knows about this John Miles would be much appreciated.

Glen

[erika]

Not really any answers to your questions, but just a couple of observations from the directories.

1796 Gores
Joseph Miles, brewer, 18 Edmund St, Oldhall St

1821 Gores
Margaret Maddox, 23 Lawrence St

No sign of Charles in 1796 or Joseph in 1821

[daggers]

Erika has pipped me to the post but here goes anyway.

In 1987 'A Directory of Liverpool Breweries' was published as a 54 page booklet. The compiler was John Barge and the publisher produced many books on pub and local history for the Manchester area.
Mr Barge used the Central Library's copies of local directories and extracted any entry for brewers or breweries, from 1766 'to the present time'.
For Joseph Miles the entry reads :
18 Edmund Street 1787-96.
1 Marlborough St, Vauxhall Rd, 1803.

There are listings, probably too late in date, for Miles & Ullyett, 4-8 Edge Vale, Smithdown Lane: 1878-79.[Ullyett by himself gets a longer list].
Miles & Pickhop,18 Lombard Street 1794, 28 Vauxhall Rd 1800, 5 Vauxhall Rd 1803. [Pickhop by himself has other entries.]

Hope some of this helps.
D

ADDED: 1) Barge points out that in early times entries in directories were paid for and listings were by no means complete.
2) I have a family member who was in a census as a builder and in the census after his death his widow was 'owner of properties' !

[dickiesam]

However, the will goes on to say Joseph, his heirs etc should 'permit' Charles's wife to have the 'use and enjoyment' of all his household goods during her 'natural life' and a later bit states that after the wife's death or re-marriage, Joseph should 'sell and disperse' the household goods to maintain and educate Charles's children. Perhaps I did misread it earlier and Joseph Miles is in fact just an Executor - something to do with the legal position of women as to why he had more authority over the estate than the wife, perhaps?

I would read that to mean that Joseph was in fact a trustee of the total assets of Charles Maddox, no matter how he actually came by those assets. Unless there is a substantial list of those assets [messuages, dwelling houses, land etc] I believe the reference to messuages etc is a legal catch-all phrase often used by solicitors. In law, a messuage is an archaic term used in conveyancing, and is almost synonymous with dwelling house. At one time "messuage" had a more extensive meaning than that conveyed by the words house or site, but such distinction no longer survives. A grant of a messuage with the appurtenances will not only pass a house but all the buildings attached or belonging to it, together with its curtilage, garden and site on which the house was built.

At 23 years old Charles was a bit young to make a will, so perhaps he had been left property and other assets with a condition that he make a will with an appointed trustee who would, in the event of Charles' demise, control the funds from disposal of the assets as required from time to time, bearing in mind the condition he should 'permit' Charles's widow to "have the 'use and enjoyment' of all his household goods during her 'natural life' and a later bit states that after the wife's death or re-marriage, Joseph should 'sell and disperse' the household goods to maintain and educate Charles's children."

There would appear to be no 'benefit' to Joseph Miles from Charles' will so I believe Joseph was in fact a trustee.

[MaryA]

At 23 years old Charles was a bit young to make a will, so perhaps he had been left property and other assets

You have taken my thought further than I did, but that's the reasoning behind my suggestion of researching other Wills, won't be easy I don't suppose as they would be indexed by deceased name rather than beneficiary.

This post might be useful to you http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... ilit=wills there is a lot of information collected together.

For newspapers, best place is online as they are more searchable. Findmypast has some archives, but if you joined the Lancashire Library you have access to 17th, 18th and 19th Century collections. There are links about joining here http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... ary#p63934

[MaryA]

Mentions of Joseph Miles
The Lancaster Gazette and General Advertiser, for Lancashire, Westmorland, &c. (Lancaster, England), Saturday, March 29, 1806; Issue 250
Married
On Saturday Mr Thomas Mosley Bennet, ironfounder, to Miss Deborah Hunter Miles, eldest daughter of Joseph Miles Esq. all of Liverpool

The Lancaster Gazette and General Advertiser, for Lancashire, Westmorland, &c. (Lancaster, England), Saturday, December 05, 1807; Issue 338.
Married
On Monday last Mr Samuel Ecking Mellor; cotton dealer, to Miss Margaret Miles, daughter of Joseph Miles Esq. both of Liverpool

The Lancaster Gazette and General Advertiser, for Lancashire, Westmorland, &c. (Lancaster, England), Saturday, September 23, 1809; Issue 432.
Married
Lately, Mr Thomas Moss. jun. druggist to Miss Mary Miles, daughter of Mr Joseph Miles of Liverpool.

Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Friday, October 22, 1813; Issue 121.
Married.
On Monday 11th inst. at St Thomas's Church, Mr Geo. Smith, assistant surgeon of his Majesty's ship Princess to Miss Ann Miles, daughter of Mr Joseph Miles, of Kirkdale.

Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Friday, March 4, 1814; Issue 140.
Deaths
On Monday last, in Queen Square, Joseph Miles Esq.
Another publication gave his age as 56.

Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Friday, June 2, 1815; Issue 205.
By Order of the Executors of the late Joseph Miles Esq.
Peremptorily on Thursday 29th day of June, at seven o'clock in the evening at Brotherton,s the Star and Garter Tavern, Paradise Street, subject to such conditions as shall then be produced,
Lot 1, A well built dwelling house situate on the west side and near the top of Seel Street, in Liverpool, occupied by Mrs Slater .... The premises are held by lease from the Corporation of Liverpool for three lives (all now in being, and young and healthy) and 21 years.
2. A dwelling house with a garden behind the same and a newly erected Currier's Shop and warehouse adjoining situate on the south side of Maguire Street in Liverpool .... Freehold of Inheritance under payment of the yearly rent of 31 19s 4d.
3. A garden well stocked with choice fruit trees and in a high state of cultivation with a summerhouse belonging thereto situate on the south side of Roscommon Street in Liverpool .... Freehold of Inheritance.
4. A dwelling house with a garden and stable situate on the north side of Gloucester Place upon Low Hill, near Liverpool containing in front thereto 31 yards and running in depth to Phythian Street 49 yards. The house is well built and finished with commodious rooms and the garden is well stocked with choice fruit trees now in full bearing, and the premises are occupied by Mr Hugh Mulleneux. Copyhold - part of the purchase money may remain in Mortgage if required.
5. A dwellinghouse on the west side of Crooked Lane in Liverpool now let as a Public House .... Held by lease under the Corporation of Liverpool for two lives (now in being) and 21 years.
6. A dwelling house on the west side of Stanley Street in Liverpool occupied by Mrs Jolly .... Held by lease from the Earl of Derby for the residue of a term of 21 years.
7. A dwelling house on the north side of Summer Street leading out of Upper Pitt Street, Liverpool .... Let at the yearly rent of 111 Held by Lease from the Corporation of Liverpool for three lives and 21 years.
Also a share in the Lyceum and Liverpool Library.

.... missed out all the measurements.

Seems to have been quite a wealthy man, perhaps why he was left as a trustee.

[Gwebb1]

Thanks for your feedback, folks - plenty for me to think about and perhaps to follow-up.

Charles Maddox obviously couldn't write soo signed the will with his 'mark' and seal - would this just have been some sort of standard 'seal' held by the lawyer, does anyone know?

I'm away for a few days now but do please keep sending me your thoughts and I will re-consider where I am up to soon.

Regards,
Glen

[MaryA]

signed the will with his 'mark' and seal - would this just have been some sort of standard 'seal' held by the lawyer, does anyone know?

I do suspect this would be the case, just officialdom you know.

Have a good time, see you on your return.

[Gwebb1]

Thanks for all your ideas on this one.

I have had a look at the will for Charles's wife, Margaret, who died in 1821. It is much easier to read physically and is much more straightforward.

Her executors are her 3 sons and she makes provision for her 2 youngest children who were not 21 when she made the will in 1819.
Her 'messuage or dwelling house and tenement' (all in the singular) is identified as Addison Street, Scotland Road. I have records showing 2 of her grandsons being born in Addison Street in 1817 and 1819 and another grandson (another Charles Maddox!) is back at this address in the 1860s according to the census and his death certificate.

The value of her estate is given as less than £5, which seems a significant reduction from her husband's assets of less than £300 back in 1803. Given the amounts of money involved and the fact that the 1803 will refers to 'messuages or dwelling houses land and premises' (all clearly plural) I guess Charles Snr probably had more than 1 piece of property and perhaps they had been left to the various children (implied in the will) which is why Margaret's estate was much less.
Anyone know if there are any records (not necessarily on-line) that I could look at to see who owned houses etc in the Scotland Road area in the early 1800s?

Regrds,
Glen

[MaryA]

There are various Rent Books and the like at the Record Office, if he owned more than one then maybe he rented them out, and of course directories, if you logon to a computer at the Record Office, they are searchable, easier than scrolling through them on microfilm.

[Gwebb1]

Thanks, Mary. I will look forward to visiting the newly-refurbished Record Office sometime soon. I do enjoy searching through stuff in a room with others rather than just tapping awayin glorious isolation on my computer at home!

Once again, thanks for your help.

Glen

[erika]

Had a check in 1821 Gores for Addison Street, unforunately in this directory you can't look up streets and who lived in them. I would need a name to look for.
As I posted earlier the only Margaret Maddox listed was at 23 Lawrence Street

1860 doesn't have any Maddox ( any spelling ) living at Addison Street

1843 no Maddox listed for Addison Street

Have you the grandson's names, maybe be able to locate them somewhere?

[MaryA]

I will look forward to visiting the newly-refurbished Record Office sometime soon.

Do remember that if you want anything from the archives you need to order it 24 hours ahead. In your case I would be slightly non specific and ask for rent books mentioning the name you are interested in and ask their advice in an email. I have found some of the assistants helpful, while others stick a bit rigidly to the rules, which could be a case of being a good excuse for not knowing the answers. I have been told some of the staff chose the department as they thought it might be a bit of a soft touch.

[Gwebb1]

Thanks for the tip, Mary - I was wondering whether I would need to pre-request rent books so you have answered my qestion in advance. I'll take your advise re: e-mailing first.

Erika: Margaret Maddox died 11th May 1821. I do not have any death record with an address on - it is the Will details that have given me a date of death. Hence, I guess she could have been at 23 Lawrence Street before she dided. Do you know whether this was near Addison Street?

Apart from Margaret's Will written 1819, references I have for Addison Street are:

1850 Charles Maddox (joiner) and his family lived in 1 court Addison Street (he was Margaret's son who had been an executor of her Will) - evidence is birth record of his son, Henry. 1851 census sees the family in Sawney Pope Street.
1861 census same family were living at 3 court Addison Street
1867 Charles died in 23 court Addison St.
1881 census Charles's widow, Catherine, living at 'Off Sawney Pope Street 3 House 23 Court' - hence I am guessing all the above addresses are actually the same place. Could 23 Lawrence St also be the same place?
1891 Catherine died at 23 court (cannot find her on 1891 census).

Does any of this help you to help me?!

Regards and thanks for trying,
Glen

[MaryA]

Could 23 Lawrence St also be the same place?

It's possible that one or the other streets ran longer than they did in 1901, I've been trying to match them up in these maps but it's not easy.

http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co. ... laz/L9.htm
Lawrence Street ran up near Juvenal Street if you remember that, buses used to turn up there off Scotland Road.
http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co. ... az/M10.htm
Addison Street definitely not far away.

Much of the side streets around Scotland Road are where the new tunnel is now.