John James Farrell known as "Jack"

[cebedford]

I'm hunting for John James Farrell and family. John was born 5th April 1890 in Carrickfergus to Elizabeth Caroline Hartfield and Peter "Patrick" Farrell.

John served in WW1, I have no idea of regiment, battalion etc but I do possess a photograph of him in uniform with his wife which was taken in Liverpool. We know John stayed in England and that his brother Edward William Farrell, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers died in Fazakerley Hospital on 29th September 1916 and is buried in Kirkdale cemetery.

I know it's not a lot to go on but was hoping maybe someone can help as I believe John may have married in Liverpool as well. I can give extra family details if required.

[dickiesam]

Hi,
What occupation was given for John's father on the birth certificate? Do you happen to know what religion the Farrell family was when John was born?

Re:

John served in WW1, I have no idea of regiment, battalion etc but I do possess a photograph of him in uniform with his wife which was taken in Liverpool.

I suggest you post that photo here and in the Military section to give us the opportunity to identify the regiment etc.

You can't post images direct onto the forum but it is relatively simple to do via Photobucket, a free image hosting website..
1) Go to http://photobucket.com/ and join the site.
2) Scan the relevant document in highest resolution you can manage. Make sure it is a reasonable size and is correctly orientated [not sideways or upside down!].
3) Follow the on-screen instruction to upload your scan image to the site. Save the image to your 'Album'. Your image will appear. When you run the mouse over it a short drop-down menu will open on the right. Left-click on the IMG Code in that menu. The IMG box will turn yellow, with the word Copied.

4) Now go to the 'Post a reply' box on the forum topic where you want show your image. Write your message then page down a line. Place the cursor at the left of the message window, right-click the mouse and select Paste. This will paste the code that you copied from Photobucket into your message. The image will not immediately appear. It comes up when you click Preview before you submit your message or click Submit to post the message.

[Katie]

To save duplication of research already carried out on The Great War Forum


http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forum ... =liverpool

[cebedford]

Johns James' father Peter was Roman Catholic, his wife Elizabeth was Church of England, to confuse matters more they married in St Anne's Cathedral, Belfast which is Church of Ireland. In the 1901 census of Ireland John is working as a farm servant with a family named Watters who list Johns religion as Presbyterian, I'm guessing because they were. So I have no idea what religion he saw himself as because his brothers and sisters didn't seem to be worried about that kind of thing. Johns sister Alice, who is my gt grandmother, raised her children as Church of Ireland, my nan was C of I as is my mum and so on but her sister Elizabeth took the religion of each of her husbands, firstly Presbyterian and then Baptist. Johns brothers Thomas and Frederick both emigrated to Australia and as far as I'm aware they were both C of I and their half sister Florence, also emigrated to Australia was C of I but converted to Roman Catholic as her husband was.

I've posted Johns uniform and history on the Great War forum so that's not so much of an issue but the family lost contact with John when he moved to England. I'm going to guess that John saw himself as "Protestant" as his father died sometime around 1900, most likely in the Boer War. Some of the children have listed their father as John, even though his name was Peter. The reason for this was some of the children were raised by their step-grandfather John Ryan. The family were secretive and it's taken me years to unravel the whole mess.....

[Blue70]

The only possible in the Liverpool area I could find was an RC burial at Ford Cemetery for a John James Farrell, Kiln Hey, Eaton Road, West derby, buried on 9 Feb 1938, aged 46 (born about 1892), buried in grave K 179.


Blue

[cebedford]

Thanks for the reply....I'll keep you updated!

[Blue70]

In grave K179 as well as John James there is:-

Catherine Farrell, Kelton Nursing Home, age 46, int 9/2/1938
Florence Farrell, 495 Liverpool Road, Ainsdale, age 85, int 20/1/1977
Leo Farrell, 12 Saven Hook, Formby, age 81, int 17/1/1983
Peter Patrick Farrell, 27 Cosgrove Road, Walton L4, age 79, int 26/1/1988

K178 also belongs to J Farrell, and in there is:-

Mary W Farrell, 93 Everton Road L5, age 16 months, int 6/9/1911
Elizabeth Farrell, 44 Stafford Street, age 76, int 26/10/1911
Marcella Pender Farrell, 8 Prescot Drive, age 18, int 23/6/1923
Thomas Farrell, Alder Hey Hospital, age 1 month, int 8/12/1928
James Farrell, 8 Prescot Drive, age 79 years, int 21/4/1932
Catherine Farrell, 8 Prescot Drive, age 62 years, int 20/2/1935


Blue

[MaryA]

Welcome to the forum. Blue has found you a tremendous amount of information, I hope this helps to identify if this is your family.

[Hilary]

The family in the grave appear to be this one around 1910

93 Everton road
James Farrell 50 cooper
Catherine wife 39 married 21 years 9 children all still living
John Joseph son 19
Catherine 17 dUr
James 15 son
Louisa 12 daur
Leo son 9
Marcella 6 daur
Albert Bernard son 4
Percy Patrick 2 son
Mary Winifred 2 months

James married Catherine Pender. He was born in Liverpool.

[Katie]

What was Elizabeth's maiden name ?

[dickiesam]

Since you have given the names of John's siblings, this would appear to be the family in the Irish 1911 Census...

Residents of a house 13 in Lawyer Street (St. George's, Antrim)
Farrell Eliza 44 Head Seamstress Church of Ireland bn England
Farrell Alice 19 Dtr Stitcher C of I bn England
Farrell Frederick 17 Son Packer C of I England
Farrell Edward 15 Son C of I England
Farrell Thomas 11 Son C of I bn Belfast
Farrell Winifred 8 Dtr C of I Belfast
Farrell Isaac 5 Son C of I Belfast
Farrell Florence 2 Dtr C of I Belfast
Porter Elizabeth 23 Dtr Stitcher C of I Belfast
Porter John 19 Son-in-law Labourer C of I Belfast
Porter Mary 3 mths G.dtr C of I Belfast

Eliza's given age of 44 does not quite tally with her YoB, unless she was a late registration....
Birth: HARTFIELD, Elizabeth Caroline
Registration district: Portsea Island, Hampshire
Year of registration: 1870; Mar qtr
Volume no: 2B; Page no: 484

[MaryA]

If we connect the family about 1910 to the family in the grave, then I think we have the wrong family.

Marriage - Our Lady of Immaculate Conception
23 November 1890
James Farrell 67 Park Road - father James Farrell
and Catherine Pender 57 Heyworth Road - father James Pender
Witnesses John Joseph Farrell 67 Park Road and Maria Joanne Leatherbarrow 57 Heyworth Road

Wrong father, we are looking for a Peter?

[dickiesam]

I believe this to be Eliza Farrell in the Irish 1901 Census. Again her age doesn't match the birth registration... And some of her children born before 1901 are, as yet, missing,

Residents of a house 11 in Milner Street (Saint Anne's Ward, Belfast, Antrim)
Farrell Eliza C 35 Head of Family Church of Ireland bn England
Farrell Elizabeth 13 Dtr Church of Ireland bn Belfast
Farrell Thomas 1 Son Church of Ireland Belfast
Hale Alice Edith 26 Boarder Baptist Church England
Hale William J 24 Boarder Baptist Church Belfast Plater's Labourer

[Hilary]

Florence is said to be the half sister on an earlier post so maybe Elizabeth Caroline died and Eliza is the second wife.

[Hilary]

When and where did Peter marry and were does the name Elizabeth Caroline Hartfield come from - is it from Jack's birth certificate?

The Elizabeth Caroline Hartfield born in Portsea in 1870 married there in 1896.

I can see an Eliza Hartfield marrying in Belfast in 1888 one of the groom's names listed is Peter Farrell

[dickiesam]

The 3 children listed in the 1911 Irish census as having been born in England, all seem to have been registered in Nantwich, Cheshire.

Alice [Ellen] - Dec qtr 1893; Frederick [Matthew] - Mar qtr 1894; and Edward [William] - Jun qtr 1896. Not enough of a gap between the first two?

The only baptism I have found:
Frederick Matthew Farrell
Christening Year: 1894
Christening Date: 04 Apr 1894
Father's Forenames: Peter
Father's Surname: Farrell
Mother's Forename: Eliza
Mother's Surname: Farrell
Record Group: Part 1 - 1
Record Number:14
Parish/Town: Coppenhall, Cheshire
Record source: Diocese of Chester parish registers of baptisms 1538-1910

[Hilary]

Snap DS

I found a tree for this family and they list Frederick Matthew Farrell as being born in Cheshire in 1893. I found a baptism at Coppenhall on 4 April 1894 parents Peter and Eliza of 204 Market Street Peter a policeman.

The tree also gave Elizabeth Caroline's birth as 1866 Greenwich so I investigated and found

Eliza Caroline Hartfield born July 2 1866 christened July 22 1866 at Woolwich parents Henry and Elizabeth abode barracks and he is listed as Corporal RA Woolwich is Royal Artillery.

Looks like the possible marriage of Eliza Hartfield in 1888 could be right. I wonder if Henry was stationed in Ireland?

[dickiesam]

Snap DS

I found a tree for this family and they list Frederick Matthew Farrell as being born in Cheshire in 1893. I found a baptism at Coppenhall on 4 April 1894 parents Peter and Eliza of 204 Market Street Peter a policeman.

The tree also gave Elizabeth Caroline's birth as 1866 Greenwich so I investigated and found

Eliza Caroline Hartfield born July 2 1866 christened July 22 1866 at Woolwich parents Henry and Elizabeth abode barracks and he is listed as Corporal RA Woolwich is Royal Artillery.

Looks like the possible marriage of Eliza Hartfield in 1888 could be right. I wonder if Henry was stationed in Ireland?

From: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forum ... =liverpool

John and Edward's father was a private in 5th Dragoon Guards,

If Peter Farrell was in the Army and possibly in Antrim when John was born in 1890, could he have been a policeman in Coppenhall, Nantwich when Frederick Matthew Farrell [bn 1894] and Edward William Farrell [bn 1896] were born? And where is he in 1901?

And, according to the 1911 Irish census 3 children were born after the end of the Boer War, Winifred [1903], Isaac [1906] and Florence [1909], so Peter didn't die in SA as suggested on another site. It would be worth getting Florence's birth cert to ascertain Peter's occupation just prior to the census.

[dickiesam]

Trying to find Isaac and Florence's births, came across this in FamilySearch:

Name: Isaac Farrell
Event Type: Military Service
Event Year Range: 1921-1941
Event Place: United Kingdom
Birthplace: Antrim
Birth Year: 1905

Citing this Record: "United Kingdom, Merchant Navy Seamen Records, 1835-1941," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC7X-1QK : accessed 01 Aug 2013), Isaac Farrell.

There are 2 cards for this seaman...
Surname: FARRELL
First names: Isaac
Date of birth: 13th November 1905
Place of birth: Belfast, County Antrim
Card type: CR1
Discharge number: R 171659
Series: BT349; Date range:1921-1941

Then, since the 2nd Boer War actually ended in 1902 and Winifred was born in 1903....

Birth: Winifred Farrell
Event Date: Jan - Mar 1903
Event Place: Belfast, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1903
Registration District: Belfast
Volume Number: 1; Page Number: 293

[cebedford]

Okay to clarify-

Elizabeth Caroline Hartfield was born in 1866 in Woolwich

Her father was Henry Hartfield and her mother was Elizabeth Cook.

Henry and Elizabeth only had the one daughter before he died, Henry was in the Royal Artillery. Elizabeth Cook then met and married John Ryan. John Ryan was also Royal Artillery and I have his service records. The Alice Hale Eliza is living with in the 1901 Irish census is in fact her half sister.

Winifred and Isaac have the same father - Isaac Hodgen and although Elizabeth Hartfield never married him she registered both children under their fathers name of Hodgen, however, Isaac died in 1906 of pneumonia so Florence also has a different father as her date of birth is 12 November 1908 although we've never been able to find a birth entry that matches or is correct, I even hired a genealogist who hit the same brick wall both myself and my Aussie family did.

The Liverpool family in the cemetery is definitely not the correct one I will look at the service record for Isaac as he used the surname Farrell rather than Hodgen. Thanks for all the detailed info though, it's amazing!