Aubrey Street & Fowler Street in Reg District of West Derby

[pingpete]

Hi,

On March 1908 Kathleen Pritchard Davies born in ??2 AUBREY Street and the informant, the mother, was living at 26 FOWLER Street.

In July 1909 Harry Cecil Davies was born at 116, AUBREY Street and this time it was stated the mother also resided there.

The mother's name was FLORETTE B. DAVIES and the father's name was CHARLES HENRY DAVIES a Bank Agent (1908) / Insurance Agent (1909)

Can anyone shed any light on these addresses or information regarding my Grandmother & her 1st 'husband'.

Despite all the usual checks over the last 10 years I have never been able to establish a marriage for Florette & Charles.

Florette was supposedly born on 25 August 1890 possibly in Scotland. It is believed that Charles died before about 1915.

What kind of area were the 2 addresses in and were they local?

Any help would be most appreciated

Peter

[jan44]

Hi Peter,

Welcome to the site.

Both Aubrey St and Fowler Street were in the Everton area.

You can see the streets on this map http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co. ... z/km46.htm Aubrey Street was near St Chrysostoms church.

Fowler Street can be found on the second square down and second in.

I haven't found any of the family on the census after 1909.

Jan

[Bertieone]

Hi Peter,

No birth registered in Scotland for a Florette, between 1870/1900


A marriage in 1917, Chorlton, March Qtr, 8c 1163

Florette B Davies
Harry Lee

Do you know if this is the same Florette?

[jan44]

Great find Bert

I was about to ask Peter if he know's what Florette's maiden name was if he has any of the children's birth certificates to confirm.

Here is the marriage on the lancashire BMD site

Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
DAVIES Florette Beatrice LEE Harry Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/256/170
LEE Harry DAVIES Florette Beatrice Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/256/170
LEE Harry MCKELLAR Florette Beatrice Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/256/170
MCKELLAR Florette Beatrice LEE Harry Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/256/170

Jan

[erika]

Can't help you with the family, but my ancestors lived at 118 Aubrey St in 1911. Their neighbours then at 116 were a Rose Ellen Holgate a widow and her daughter Nellie age 8, her parents Edward and Jane Taylor and sister Mary Emma Taylor.
Not sure if those names may help, just a thought

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. From the information you have I would have thought you had the birth certificates of the two children, does the mother's name not include her maiden name?

[dickiesam]

No sign of a Florette that could be the mother of those two children in 1901 and in 1910+1. There are only 7 listed in the entire later census; one of them is Coleman [38] in West Derby and the other is Davies [26] in Birkenhead. She is married to Harry from Carmarthen, Wales. No children.

There is a Charles Henry Davis, insurance agent, in the 1910+1 but he's not married to a Florette... But his wife has Florette's other forename!

23 Hale Road, Walton, Liverpool.
DAVIS, Charles Henry - 36 - Insurance agent - Brazil, South America, Resident.
DAVIS, Beatrice Louisa - Wife - 35 - Lancashire, Liverpool.
They have one child, Elsie, bn abt 1904.

As MaryA pointed out we should have a birth cert for Florette's maiden name.

[erika]

Just checked my 1911 directory which would have been compiled in 1910.
Interestlingly at 116 Aubrey St was a William PRITCHARD Master Mariner.

Kathleen Davies middle name was Pritchard, any connection do you think?

[simone]

Just a bit of an aside, but my family lived at 116 Aubrey Street....Rudd's and Davidson's... but later on than the dates you want. My great Aunts still lived there at the time they were cleared in the 60's 70's... big old houses... used to have music recitals in the cellar!

mentioned on database here
http://www.losttribeofeverton.co.uk/



Simone x

[dickiesam]

Just checked my 1911 directory which would have been compiled in 1910.
Interestlingly at 116 Aubrey St was a William PRITCHARD Master Mariner.

Kathleen Davies middle name was Pritchard, any connection do you think?

Coincidence? Nothing fits so far... As the man said... "Tis a puzzlement!"

[dickiesam]

I know Peter suggested Florette was born in Scotland but there is a Florette Beatrice, the only such-named birth registration between 1870 and 1890, in the GRO...

Births Sep 1884: Slatter, Florette Beatrice - Worcester - 6c - 299.

[erika]

Again in 1911 Directory
Charles Davies Insurance Agent 21 Blessington Road N which was near Walton Breck Road

Not sure if he's the one you found DS in 1910 +1?

[jan44]

In the census 1910 + 1 that has Harry Davies and Florette has that they have two children living, but they are not listed with them!

Jan

[pingpete]

Thank you to all who have contributed to my FIRST post.

Yes Florette Beatrice did marry Harry Lee my Grandfather. I have the marriage cert & knew Harry for about 6 years prior to his death.

My Grandmother used a variety of names Violet Beatrice was a common combination which makes tracking her birth all the more difficult as I'm not entirely sure what she was Christened. She died on the Isle of Man and her birth date was included on the death certificate and Scotland was stated as the place but no town or city.

Am I correct in thinking that both addresses were normal dwelling houses? The reason I ask is that on an unconnected death certificate I aquired the address was given as 90, Eccles New Road, in Salford. After further investigation it transpired that this was in fact the offices of a Workhouse Hospital !!

The stories surrounding Mr Davies were that he died soon after the second child leaving Violet Beatrice Florette, my grandmother, a widow in her late teens. Not wanting to appear cynical but.....how convenient could this death have been for Gran to say she was a widow with 2 children rather than an unmarried mother with 2 children. No suitable marriage has yet been found which does beg the question, was there ever a marriage in the first place or was Mr Davies the father but unable or unwilling to enter into marriage?

I can see that you all like a challenge so I will add 3 more facts;

1) When Gran married Harry Lee in 1917 she was shown on the marriage cert. as living in Levenshulme, just outside Manchester and about 2 miles away from where Harry lived.

2) On the day of the wedding at the reception Gran, in full view of all the guests turned to Harry and said, 'Harry I'd like to introduce you to my 2 children Kathleen & Cecil' By all accounts he was dumbstruck & not too happy!!

3) If Gran was a widow, as she was described on the marriage cert for Harry Lee, at such a young age how did she support the 2 children and where? Family hearsay indicates they were sent to a private school but no details are known. This theory would support how Gran could keep the children 'out of the way' during her courtship with Harry. So who was paying?

Was it a Mr Davies as a moral obligation? Certainly after the marriage the children lived together as a family with Gran & Harry. Sadly there are no family members or their descendants left who can add any more information.

Last but not least is Kathleens middle name of PRITCHARD. hardly a girls name and one which is more akin to being possibly her mother's maiden name. This has always been given by Gran as McKellar so where does Pritchard come from?

Sadly The Heir Hunters would not be interested in this case as there was a will but with very value.

There is always the chance that some of the information I have posted is incorrect due to Gran's 'imagination' if you understand what I mean.

I would dearly love to crack this side of my family so any suggestions or ideas or facts you may offer would be welcome.

Best of luck!!!!!

[dickiesam]

Hi Peter,
Re:

90, Eccles New Road, in Salford. After further investigation it transpired that this was in fact the offices of a Workhouse Hospital !!

Until quite recently it was the practice to use 'pseudo-addresses' for institutions such as workhouses and hospitals on B and D certs. Most scousers here would be familiar with 144a Brownlow Hill [for the Liverpool Workhouse and the Infirmary], and 43 Belmont Road [Belmont, later Newsham Hospital].

Grandmother Florette would not be the first mother to be placed in circumstances where she would claim to be a widow. I have seen several examples in censuses where single mothers with children described themselves as widows and deserted wives sometimes did the same thing. Do you have the actual birth certs for the two children Kathleen Pritchard Davies and Harry Cecil Davies? Because you have posted the name Davies for both parents I believe you may be looking at baptisms?

[pingpete]

Hi DS,

Yes I have the birth certificates for both Kathleen & Cecil and it was from these that I obtained all the Davies information together with the 2 West Derby address's. It would seem I can rule out a Workhouse connection, however the exact nature of the address has not been resolved. Were they back street clinics or just dwelling houses?

Peter

[simone]

116 Aubrey Street was definitely a house when I went there, a row of big old Terraced houses... seemed huge to me but then I was only little

here's a pic
http://bit.ly/11IF3Zx

seem to remember dad saying 116 was opposite the church....

[simone]

Just a coincidence maybe, but given that you mention Scotland as possible birthplace there is another Davis family in Aubrey Street in 1910+1, noticed them the other day, and didn't get time to look further
they are Edith, a widow, with her children John William and Edith... Mum Edith is born Liverpool, but both children born Scotland... maybe they are related in some way

sorry can't post the full details now as my sub has just gone and expired, and can't renew just yet

Simone x

[dickiesam]

Hi DS,

Yes I have the birth certificates for both Kathleen & Cecil and it was from these that I obtained all the Davies information together with the 2 West Derby address's. It would seem I can rule out a Workhouse connection, however the exact nature of the address has not been resolved. Were they back street clinics or just dwelling houses?

Peter

Hi Peter,
Do we understand then that the mother's maiden name and her married name was Davies? Not unheard of for Jones and Smith etc, but unusual for most other names. It could throw a different light onto the circumstances of both births.

With regard to the addresses, both the 1901 and the later census indicate they were private houses.

[pingpete]

Hi DS,

The mother's maiden name was recorded on the children's birth certificates as McKELLER. Her married name was DAVIES and it the marriage to Mr Davies that is proving very difficult to find, if indeed there ever was such a marriage. See earlier post.

cheers

Peter