Catherine Johnston

[dickiesam]

The above baptisms don't look promising DS,
Geri going for Mathew James birth cert would be the best bet for progress me thinks.

That would be my next move as well.

[geri_hill]

Wow! You guys are simply amazing! I am going to add to your confusion. I bought all the birth info on Ancestry Ireland. This is what I found regarding children of William Gray:

Catherine, born Nov 13, 1872 to William Gray, sailor and Catherine Finnigan Witness Catherine Gray, address Columbus Street

Annie, born Jan 27, 1885 to William Gray, sailor and Catherine Johnston. Witness Agnes Maginess, address 2 Southwell Street

Sarah Jane, born Nov 22, 1877 to William Gray, sailor and Catherine Johnston. Witness Charlotte McGlitton address 2 Southwell Street

William, born March 25, 1883 to William Gray, Sailor and Catherine Johnston, Witness Catherine Gray Address 2 Southwell Street

Mathew James, born July 26, 1886 to William Gray, Sailor and Catherine Cunningham, Witness Catherine Gray Address 7 Molyneux

About 1888 William Catherine stillborn Address 3 Southwell Street

Oct 3, 1889, Thomas, William Gray, Sailor and Catherine Johnston, Witness Elizabeth Hutchison 3 southwell Street

Now, isn't that interesting, Mathew James mum is Catherine Cunningham, but he states that Catherine Johnston is him mum on his stowaway document.

The 1875, 77 and 83 births mum is Catherine Johnston. Why would the 1886 birth be Cunningham.

Perhaps William liked ladies with the name Catherine????? I am so confused.

[Bertieone]

At first glance, have you checked for a Catherine Cunningham death, a child to another woman who died and Catherine Johnston brought him up, just initial thoughts.

[dickiesam]

OK! Thanks for that info... Re:

I bought all the birth info on Ancestry Ireland. This is what I found regarding children of William Gray:

I hope you didn't actually buy the birth certs via Ancestry? A very expensive way of obtaining them.

Now that first birth Catherine 1872...
From Familysearch:
Name: Catherine Gray
Birth Date: 13 Nov 1872
Birthplace: Belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Father's Name: William Gray
Mother's Name: Catherine Finnigan

I had found this possible marriage earlier:
Marriage: GRAY, William and FINNIGAN, Catherine.
Registration district: Liverpool.
Year of registration: 1869; Sep qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 121

Is it possible that the transcription of the birth Mathew James, born July 26, 1886 to William Gray, Sailor and Catherine Cunningham, Witness Catherine Gray, Address 7 Molyneux, translated Finnegan/Finnigan as Cunningham?

I had thought William might be a Morman with more than one missus.. but the rest of the family were C 0f I/E!

[geri_hill]

Thanks for looking up those marriages Bert. Neither fit with my thought, so on we go...

Geri, re:

Looking for birth or marriage information on Catherine Johnston b 1847 Liverpool
She married a William Gray b about 1847 maybe Ireland (he was a sailor)

Where did you get Catherine's maiden name from? If it was the birth of a child William in 1882, it would be worth finding the birth of one the other 3 children shown in the 1901 to confirm you have the right Catherine Gray. And where is that child in 1901? And when did the father, William, die?

I got Catherine's Maiden name from a cemetery record which includes a Catherine Johnston living at the same address. This is the record:

Occupants of grave P2 455, City Cemetery
Forename(s) Surname Age Date of death Date of burial
Catherine Gray 75 Years 23 October 1922 26 October 1922 View Details

Catherine Gray 24 Years 16 August 1897 18 August 1897 View Details

William Gray 50 Yrs 12 April 1898 14 April 1898 View Details

Catherine Johnston 70 Years 16 February 1898 19 February 1898 View Details

The last address of all were 3 Southwell Street, except for Catherine Gray, 75, her last address was Milewater Street.

I found a death record for William Gray, Sr who drowned at the dock in April 1898.

On William Gray, Jr Navy records his birth is 7/2/1882 NOT 25/3/1883 as on the birth record I found.
His recorded tattoos on the records include one "In memory of my dear father" which would fit with the 1898 death.

I would think that William Gray and Catherine Johnston would be his parents except for the discrepancy in the Birth dates, but I cannot find any other birth record for a William Gray born Belfast 7/2/1882 parents William, Catherine as stated in the Navy records.

URGH! this is the second time I typed this, I lost the first one........lol

[dickiesam]

And another thing...
All the births except one were in Southwell Street. Why was Mathew James, born July 26, 1886 born at 7 Molyneux? And its also the only one where the mother is Catherine Cunningham. Have to ask was William keeping 2 homes and the witness Catherine Gray could be his sister?

[Bertieone]

Something else to think about,

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRQS-556


just coincidental, I suppose.

[geri_hill]

And another thing...
All the births except one were in Southwell Street. Why was Mathew James, born July 26, 1886 born at 7 Molyneux? And its also the only one where the mother is Catherine Cunningham. Have to ask was William keeping 2 homes and the witness Catherine Gray could be his sister?

Maybe, perhaps, just maybe, William was at sea, and Catherine Gray (wife) was at Catherine Gray(sister or mum's) house when she gave birth, just saying............ lol

On William Jr's marriage info, his father William Gray, Sr. b 1847 (about) is listed as a Sailor. I have not been able to find any Navy Records for William Sr.

[geri_hill]

Something else to think about,

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRQS-556


just coincidental, I suppose.

OUCH I need to get my thoughts in order. I have so much information it is hard to keep it organized

[geri_hill]

I just found this!

Record details
Name of deceased Andrew Gray
Last place of residence 7 Molyneux St
Age 16 Years
**********
Date of death 17 November 1886
Date of burial 18 November 1886
Cemetery City Cemetery - Public Ground
Grave section and number NK NK
Burial Type Earth Burial



Name of deceased Annie Gray
Last place of residence 7 Molyneux St
Age 12 Yrs
**********
Date of death 20 September 1886
Date of burial 21 September 1886
Cemetery City Cemetery - Public Ground
Grave section and number NK NK
Burial Type Earth Burial

I am going to try to find the address in a directory. Geri

[dickiesam]

Still teasing out that list of burials....

The first one is Catherine Gray the mother, according to the 1901 and 1911, of Sarah Jane, Michael and Thomas Gray. She is shown as having been born about 1847.

I am assuming you consider the Catherine Johnston who died in 1898 as being her mother and William's mother-in-law?

Edited to correct an error!

[geri_hill]

Still teasing out that list of burials....

None of them refer to Catherine Gray the mother, according to the 1901 and 1911, of Sarah Jane, Michael and Thomas Gray. She is shown as having been born about 1847.

I am assuming you consider the Catherine Johnston who died in 1898 as being her mother and William's mother-in-law?

The first occupant, Catherine Gray, 75, died 1922 would have been born 1847ish. Because the birth records for the same date state Catherine Johnston, I am assuming the Catherine Johnston buried there would be Catherine Gray, 75's mum and William Sr. mother-in-law.

We will solve this!

[geri_hill]

Regarding the birth registrations I purchased on AncestryIreland.com. I purchased them when they were running a St. Patrick's Day promotion. I bought a bulk credit package and paid less than a pound for each. Most items I have purchased have been spot on, but I sure am question the William Gray, Jr. birth info.

[Bertieone]

Mathew James doesn't say his mother is Catherine Johnston when on the ship, its Catherine Gray, Southwell St, that's 1921, Catherine Johnston dies in 1898. Whoever is on the census was born in Liverpool, not being able to find a Johnston/Gray marriage, the conundrum to concentrate on is Finnigan/Gray marriage that DS found and Cunningham, MJ's mother.

Just rambling.

[geri_hill]

Mathew James doesn't say his mother is Catherine Johnston when on the ship, its Catherine Gray, Southwell St, that's 1921, Catherine Johnston dies in 1898. Whoever is on the census was born in Liverpool, not being able to find a Johnston/Gray marriage, the conundrum to concentrate on is Finnigan/Gray marriage that DS found and Cunningham, MJ's mother.

Just rambling.

That is because Catherine Gray is his mom (Johnston is her Maiden name)
He states his mum was Catherine Gray as it is her married name. She was married to William Gray Sr. Johnston was a maiden name.

I deducted this from the cemetery records, combined with Naval Records and Census Records:

Occupants of grave P2 455, City Cemetery

Forename(s) Surname Age Date of death Date of burial

Catherine Gray 75 Years 23 October 1922 26 October 1922 (LIVING at Southwell St. This is the spouse/mum born 1847) The birth records show her as Johnston her maiden name

Catherine Gray 24 Years 16 August 1897 18 August 1897 (LIVING at Southwell St. This is a daughter of William Gray Sr and Catherine Johnston)

William Gray 50 Yrs 12 April 1898 14 April 1898 (LIVING at southwell st This is the Senior William b 1847)
He is not on the Census' as he passed. Accounts for the tattoo on William Jr. Navy Records.

Catherine Johnston 70 Years 16 February 1898 19 February 1898 (Also living at Southwell Street. b 1828 (would make her 20 when Catherine Gray/Johnston above was born) I am assuming Catherine Sr.

[Bertieone]

Catherine Johnston died 1898 aged 70, Birth 1828
March Qtr, Belfast, Vol 1 Page 251

Mother of Catherine Grey, nee Johnston, if we can find a marriage.

[Bertieone]

1908 Belfast Street Directory,

Southwell St,

1 William Gray, Sailor, ............. probably son.
3 Robert Wilson........................Sarah Jane husband family
8 Mrs Johnston
10 Catherine Gray

[geri_hill]

Thanks Bert

I went back to the 1901 and 1911 Census to look at those same addresses.

People must have moved around a lot. There is no consistency, which hurts me head. lol

I have looked at the directories so many times before, but had never seen what you saw. I always tend to fixate on one person and one address. Must start looking at neighbours.

Big help you are! Cheers Geri

[Bertieone]

I just found this!

Record details
Name of deceased Andrew Gray
Last place of residence 7 Molyneux St
Age 16 Years
**********
Date of death 17 November 1886
Date of burial 18 November 1886
Cemetery City Cemetery - Public Ground
Grave section and number NK NK
Burial Type Earth Burial



Name of deceased Annie Gray
Last place of residence 7 Molyneux St
Age 12 Yrs
**********
Date of death 20 September 1886
Date of burial 21 September 1886
Cemetery City Cemetery - Public Ground
Grave section and number NK NK
Burial Type Earth Burial

I am going to try to find the address in a directory. Geri

Birth
Andrew Gray,
14 Sept, 1870,
Ballycarry, Antrim, Ireland,
William Gray
Catherine Finnigan

[dickiesam]

Birth
Andrew Gray,
14 Sept, 1870,
Ballycarry, Antrim, Ireland,
William Gray
Catherine Finnigan

I am 'guessing' that because I couldn't find either of this couple, whose marriage I had found earlier, in the 1871 that they are the parents of Andrew. Muddy waters.....?

Marriage: GRAY, William and FINNIGAN, Catherine.
Registration district: Liverpool.
Year of registration: 1869; Sep qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 121