Grandfather's ww1 service.

[Red Tom]

Hi' I'm not too sure what help members are able to offer, but I'm trying to discover as much information as I can about my grandfather's ww1 army service. My dad understood that his father died (1923) due to health conditions/complications due to wounds recieved in action, but this could just be family lore.If indeed he was discharged in this way, how do I proceed to find out?

[Hilary]

I would suggest you get his death certificate to see what he died from.

You could look on Ancestry to see if his Army Papers survived the bombing of the Second World War.

[Katie]

What was his name?

[Red Tom]

I would suggest you get his death certificate to see what he died from.

You could look on Ancestry to see if his Army Papers survived the bombing of the Second World War.

I tried to find his record,without any success, but that me have been due to my ineptitude more than anything else.The death certificate will be next on my list. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Red Tom]

What was his name?

Hello again Katie.Michael Thomas Campbell, born Liverpool. According to his baptismal record his d.o.b was 16/04/1889, however, his marriage record has his year of birth as 1894!, but the odd thing is that he seems to have had a brother born 1894, died 1895.To confuse the issue even further,the 1901 census has him as Thomas, b.1897, as does the 1911! So perhaps this is why I've been unsuccessful with his army records.
I have a picture of him in uniform, which was identified some time ago as being The King's Liverpool Regiment.All in all, it's a bit of a muddle,so I understand if it's too complex to unravel.

[daggers]

Tom
It may help looking for service records on Ancestry if you first find a possible medal index card. These are also available on Ancestry, but it is quicker to use the National Archives site, where access is quicker and the search easier, even though you have to pay £3.36 to see the image.
The TNA site shows no card for a Michael Campbell in the King's Liverpool Regiment, but 9 Thomas Campbells. One of those also served some of his time in the King's Own Royal Lancaster Regiment.
I suggest you look for the National Archives list [which is free if you skip looking at the cards'images] and make a note of the regimental numbers for each of the 8 Private Thomas Campbells in the KLR. You can then use those to help your search in Ancestry which is free in many of the country's public libraries.

D

[Katie]

I have searched freebmd from 1920-1925 for a Michael/Thomas Campbell death registration and there are none that seem to fit the age of how old he would have been when he died.

[Red Tom]

Thank you Daggers,I'll get onto that today.

[Red Tom]

Hi Katie, I had it as Q1 1923, but as you mention, the d.o.b. is a puzzler,I'll try the R.C. church records again today to recheck, as according to my notes, he had a brother Michael Francis b1894, d1895, and another,Thomas Joseph b1896 who I can find no other mention of.

[Hilary]

Is the baptism record for Michael Thomas that at Our Lady of Lourdes with parents Michael Campbell and Mary Jane Mason? That gives birth date as 16 March 1889 Registered June Q 1889 If yes I suspect that one died in 1890 reg June Q 1890. Both in reg district of Toxteth Park.

Who did your Michael Thomas marry and when and who is named as his father on his marriage certificate?

[Hilary]

Could you also post the census entries for 1901 and 1911 as well? Thanks.

There is a death entry for a Thomas Campbell in March Q 1923 with a birth year of abt 1897 however with all the conflicting dates of birth you have I think it's important to start with the known and move back from there.

So who are given as your father's parents on his birth certificate and do you have their marriage certificate? If yes please give the details.

[Red Tom]

Yes Hilary, that's him,(father Michael, mother Mary Jane),I'm afraid I don't have his birth or marriage certificates, but he married Ruth Cockram in 1915 Liverpool.
I'm sorry, but I can't put my hand on the note's I made re the census info just now.

[Katie]

Thomas Campbell married Ruth Cockram at St. Peters the marriage is on Ancestry

Name: Michael Thomas Campbell-Painter
Birth Year: abt 1894
Age: 21
Marriage Date: 21 Mar 1915
Parish: Liverpool St Peter
Spouse's Name: Ruth Cockram
Father's Name: Michael Campbell-Painter
Spouse Father's Name: Samuel Cockram

There are 3 children to this marriage one born 1917 you could take a chance and apply for this cerificate as you may get lucky and it will state what regiment and also his number.

Also there was a Michael baptised in 1894 at St. James Toxteth

ST JAMES 1894 MICHAEL CAMPBELL MICHAEL CAMPBELL CATHERINE WILSON

Thomas may be his confirmation name

[Red Tom]

Yes Katie, you have the right one, There were 4 children,(one b 1915 died early) the birth in 1917 was my aunt Annie May, and the point re her birth certificate is a good one.The St James baptism is unconnected. (My research to date has concentrated a great deal on my maternal side in an effort to discover my illegitimate grandfather's father, this I have achieved, so I can now devote my limited financial resources to purchasing the relevant certificates for my dad's family).
I'm beginning to wonder if I haven't opened a can of worms with this one, but I appreciate the help you're all offering,as I would be floundering even more than I am now otherwise.

[Hilary]

The Michael Thomas born 16 April son of Michael and Mary Jane Mason cannot be yours as he was buried in Ford Cemetery on 8 June 1890 aged 13 months.

[Fledge]

I'm beginning to wonder if I haven't opened a can of worms with this one.

Oh, I think we all open cans of worms from time to time. My family more than most.

[dickiesam]

I'm beginning to wonder if I haven't opened a can of worms with this one.

Oh, I think we all open cans of worms from time to time. My family more than most.

I've a few empty cans kicking around the shelves here! As well as an empty cupboard or two wherein once rested a family skeleton, now laid to rest in truth not a family fairy tale!

[Red Tom]

I'm more than a little flummoxed now. I had my grandfather as Michael Thomas Campbell, but it now transpires that he died in 1890,I had a brother, Michael Francis b10/05/1894, but I had him as died Q1 1895,I'd also turned up a Thomas Joseph (poss) b1897, so the water is muddier than before.Obviously, the relevant certificates would clarify the issue, but I can't rectify that straight away. I will have to work out which certificate to purchase first, and any suggestions as to which one will be appreciated.I'm also aware that this is meant to be a military page, and my post is diverging somewhat, but would it be in order for me to post a picture of my mystery g/dad in his uniform, perhaps if someone is able to conclusively i.d. it, might it be of further helpi wonder?

[Katie]

You can post the picture. Do you have the Census details for Michael for 1911 & 1901? I can't locate him with a father whose a painter.


Also you could put a separate topic on the Liverpool & S W Section Section

[Red Tom]

Hi Katie,I'm afraid I can't find the 1901 info for the moment, but at the 1911, he is at
3 Parliament Sq? (never heard of P.Square, more than likely Street)Liverpool, the home of his brother in law Michael McCormick and sister Mary Ann, (and their daughter,Mary Jane) he is shown as Thomas,b 1897 Liverpool, apprentice paperhanger.Also present is his other sister 'Lizzie' Campbell 1899 Liverpool. I'll have a go at posting the photo.