Isabella Dugan

[Blue70]

Where these records on Ancestry? I'm confused about how this information has come to light. Where did you find them? I wrote down in my notes the other day the surname Maguire but I mustn't have been convinced enough about the link to post about it.

On the subject of occupations it was common for men in Liverpool and Belfast to alternate between work on the docks as labourers and going away to sea. Dock work was casual so they could leave it whenever they wanted and go away to sea.


Blue

[geri_hill]

Where these records on Ancestry? I'm confused about how this information has come to light. Where did you find them? I wrote down in my notes the other day the surname Maguire but I mustn't have been convinced enough about the link to post about it.

On the subject of occupations it was common for men in Liverpool and Belfast to alternate between work on the docks as labourers and going away to sea. Dock work was casual so they could leave it whenever they wanted and go away to sea.


Blue

I found both on AncestryIreland, but got too excited too soon. The record of the marriage to Elizabeth Lagan in Ballymacarrett is correct, with the father being Samuel.

The one to Sarah Maguire, his dad is listed as Robert, which would be inconsistent. Sorry for so much confusion, but thanks for all the help!

[Blue70]

Okay so we think this is Robert's second marriage:-

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGZT-8C7

Blue

[Blue70]

Looking at the posts on the Belfast forum from 2012 with information posted there on these families, the "Thomas Dougan" living with his step mother "Eliza Dougan" on the 1901 Irish Census is a good match age-wise for the Thomas Dugan on the 1861 census in Liverpool. The same Thomas Dugan is living with Isabella and the Blair family in 1911.

We still haven't found Robert's first marriage but we appear to have proven the link between the 1861 Census in Liverpool, Isabella's 1861 birth in Liverpool and Eliza Logan the second wife of Robert. Here are the two Irish Census records featuring Thomas Dugan with his step mother and then with his sister Isabella:-

1901

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000708562/

1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 002174256/


Blue

[Blue70]

It also makes sense for the Robert Dugan of the 1861 Census in Liverpool who was born about 1851 to have died in 1866. Your ancestor was also called Robert so the first Robert must have died. Your Robert was born to Eliza the second wife. Your Robert on the Irish Census records:-

1901

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000707258/

1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 002174262/


Blue

[Blue70]

Possible birth details for Robert Dugan Senior:-

Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911

Name: Robert Dugan
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 16 Sep 1818
Birth Place: Dromore Parish, Down, Ireland
Father's Name: Samuel Dugan
Mother's name: Ann Marshall
FHL Film Number: 496515


Blue

[Blue70]

If you're still uncertain about getting the 1861 birth certificate for Isabella what you could do is put no where it says "Is GRO Index Ref number known?" then enter the search year as 1861. The GRO will search 1861 and one year either side. On the next page where it has the names of the parents enter Robert Dugan for the father and leave the mother's names blank. You should then only be sent the birth certificate if the father's name is Robert. Here is the GRO link:-

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/


Blue

[geri_hill]

Okay so we think this is Robert's second marriage:-

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGZT-8C7

Blue

Yes, thank you, that is definitely the second marriage and the mother of my Gr-Grandfather.

[geri_hill]

Looking at the posts on the Belfast forum from 2012 with information posted there on these families, the "Thomas Dougan" living with his step mother "Eliza Dougan" on the 1901 Irish Census is a good match age-wise for the Thomas Dugan on the 1861 census in Liverpool. The same Thomas Dugan is living with Isabella and the Blair family in 1911.

We still haven't found Robert's first marriage but we appear to have proven the link between the 1861 Census in Liverpool, Isabella's 1861 birth in Liverpool and Eliza Logan the second wife of Robert. Here are the two Irish Census records featuring Thomas Dugan with his step mother and then with his sister Isabella:-

1901

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000708562/

1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 002174256/


Blue

Again, all definite yes's thanks!

[geri_hill]

It also makes sense for the Robert Dugan of the 1861 Census in Liverpool who was born about 1851 to have died in 1866. Your ancestor was also called Robert so the first Robert must have died. Your Robert was born to Eliza the second wife. Your Robert on the Irish Census records:-

1901

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000707258/

1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 002174262/


Blue

This is where my head starts to hurt. Facts I know for sure:

My Grandfather: Thomas Dugan b 1900 Father Robert b 1875
My Gr Grandfather: Robert Dugan b 1875 Father Robert b 1850
My Gr Gr Grandfather: Robert Dugan b 1850 d 1960 Father Samuel had two wives 1st one?
2nd, Eliza Logan
My Gr Gr Gr Grandfather: Samuel Dugan

All this info I got from census, cemetery records and marriage extracts. Also, my grandfather's marriage extract actually states Malcolm Lane, which confirms the connections working backwards.

Thanks for your help. My Robert who's father was Samuel was born in 1850ish and died 1860. (Therefore, it is my thinking that he could not have been a second Robert as he lived) I got this from the cemetery records from an address on Swift Street that I know is correct from Ship Records to Canada.

My Gr Gr Grandfather, Robert was born around 1875 in Ballymacarrett, and his Mom was Eliza.

Is this supposed to be so painful? lol

[geri_hill]

If you're still uncertain about getting the 1861 birth certificate for Isabella what you could do is put no where it says "Is GRO Index Ref number known?" then enter the search year as 1861. The GRO will search 1861 and one year either side. On the next page where it has the names of the parents enter Robert Dugan for the father and leave the mother's names blank. You should then only be sent the birth certificate if the father's name is Robert. Here is the GRO link:-

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/


Blue

Thank you so much for this information. I went to the GRO index once, and did not know how to use it properly, thus gave up. I will go back.

Invaluable information to me, there are others I need to look up. I am no longer so "blue", but enlightened. THANKS!

[Blue70]

I don't have a Robert Dugan born 1850 this is what I have:-

Samuel Dugan was the father of
Robert Dugan born about 1819-21
First Wife: Sarah
Children: Robert (1851-1866), Thomas, John, Edward, Isabella
Second Wife: Eliza Logan
Children: Robert...


Blue

[geri_hill]

I don't have a Robert Dugan born 1850 this is what I have:-

Samuel Dugan was the father of
Robert Dugan born about 1819-21
First Wife: Sarah
Children: Robert (1851-1866), Thomas, John, Edward, Isabella
Second Wife: Eliza Logan
Children: Robert...


Blue

Your theory makes much more sense to me. The whole naming thing confuses me. Your Sarah is McKenna not MaGuire right?

[Blue70]

We don't know Sarah's surname yet you will hopefully get that from Isabella's birth certificate.


Blue

[geri_hill]

We don't know Sarah's surname yet you will hopefully get that from Isabella's birth certificate.


Blue

I am going to that site now, thank to your info! I will find it!

[Blue70]

Where did you get the surname McKenna from? Remember the baptism I mentioned earlier on this thread of a Robert Duggan at St. Anne's, Church of Ireland, Shankill, Belfast in 1851? I used the search facility on Roots Ireland to find that. You can find out a certain amount of information without buying the records by playing with the search facility:-

http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/index.php?id=home

The father's name was Robert and the mother's name was Sarah. I tried a lot of different surnames to get a "hit" but couldn't discover the mother's surname. Now after entering McKenna for the mother's surname I get a hit! So Sarah McKenna does look like being the name of Robert's first wife.


Blue

[Blue70]

There's a marriage on Roots Ireland in 1842 for a Robert Dougan and Sarah McKenna but it appears to be at a Belfast RC church so right names but different religion. It could be the right marriage and after marrying in the RC church the family decided to baptise the children as Church of Ireland or maybe it's just been transcribed wrongly as Belfast RC.


Blue

[Blue70]

Here's some more confusing information for you! On Roots Ireland there are two baptisms in 1855 for a Samuel son of Robert & Sarah formerly McKenna. One spelt Dugan is for St. Anne's, C of I, Shankill the other spelt Duggan is for St. Patrick's RC!

The cost of Isabella's birth certificate from the GRO is £9.25 in British money which includes postal delivery. Enter the details as I said earlier in the thread so they search around 1861 for Isabella daughter of Robert Dugan. It'll take a few weeks to arrive.


Blue

[MaryA]

Well done Blue for your brave venture into Ireland - successfully!

[geri_hill]

Where did you get the surname McKenna from? Remember the baptism I mentioned earlier on this thread of a Robert Duggan at St. Anne's, Church of Ireland, Shankill, Belfast in 1851? I used the search facility on Roots Ireland to find that. You can find out a certain amount of information without buying the records by playing with the search facility:-

http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/index.php?id=home

The father's name was Robert and the mother's name was Sarah. I tried a lot of different surnames to get a "hit" but couldn't discover the mother's surname. Now after entering McKenna for the mother's surname I get a hit! So Sarah McKenna does look like being the name of Robert's first wife.


Blue

I had a subscription to AncestryIreland, and it was one of the records that I purchased but was unsure of.