hawley family

[joan-3]

Hi,
I am at a brick wall with this now, i have a marriage for thomas hawley,age full,widower,labourer,father thomas hawley, labourer, mary ann mather, spinster,age full,both lived in boundery st, father john mather, labourer, marriage was on 11th sept 1849, st nicholas.
I also have a birth for a son richard hawley, 4th april 1851, father thomas hawley, mother mary ann hawley formerly mather, boundery st, I just can not seem to get any further back with this family
any help please as what i should do or look for next, i have done census but i can not find them on any
thank you joan

[erika]

Hi Joan and welcome to the forum where hopefully you will receive a lot of help. They are a great bunch on here and turn up some amazing finds

Not sure whether these finds are any help, but here goes anyway.

Catholic Baptisms
Thomas Hawley father Thomas Hawley, mother Birgetta Burns
at St Nicholas
Born 12 July 1821, Baptised 22 July 1821

1841 Census
Thomas Hawley age 20 b abt 1821 Lancashire Labourer
William Hawley age 15
Woodstock St, Liverpool
Piece 564, Book 12, Folio 6, Page 4


Marriage June qtr 1842
Thomas Hawley and Ann Doby at Our Lady St Nicholas and St Anne
( maybe 1st marriage?)

Cheers
Erika

[MaryA]

Hi welcome to the forum Joan.

Nice one Erika, I just found that 1841 census, hopefully it would give some clues as to Thomas's age, so he would be between 30 and 35 in 1851, Woodstock Street being near Lime Kiln Lane and not far from Boundary Street so chances are it might be the same man.

Joan who were the witnesses on the marriage certificate?

I have walked down Boundary Street in 1851 and there are not many houses listed, I'm wondering if some have been missed off, they should be there judging by the date of the baptism.

Do you have any idea if Thomas had any siblings?

[MaryA]

Checked the witnesses who appeared to be Joseph "Hesting" and Margaret Parker, but it must be Hasting and I found ...

Boundary Street, North Side, Corner No. 1 Court, Kirkdale, Liverpool
John Mather Head M 67 Malster, Chelsea Pensioner, Lancashire, Gohune (ok it's obviously not right, but I can't read it any better)
Mary Mather Wife M 59 Ireland

Next door is
Joseph Hasting Head M 28 General Labourer Lancashire, Wigan
Elizabeth Wife M 28 Kent Woolwich
Mary Ann daur 4 Scholar Lancashire, Liverpool
Joseph son 2 " "
John son 2 months " "
HO107; Piece: 2190; Folio: 335; Page: 40

Kent, Woolwich ..... Chelsea Pensioner? eldest daughter Mary Ann? makes me think of coincidences

[MaryA]

Possible something to keep on file
Marriage at St Nicholas, 31 January, 1845
Joseph Easton Full Widower Labourer Dalrymple Street
Father Humphrey Easton Labourer
to
Elizabeth Mather full age Spinster North Shore
Father John Mather Labourer

Joseph Easton made his mark
Elizabeth Mather signed her name

Witnesses Alexander Barer and Mary Ann Mather, both made their marks

On Thomas Hawley & Mary Ann Mather's marriage, they both made their marks too.

[dickiesam]

Boundary Street, North Side, Corner No. 1 Court, Kirkdale, Liverpool
John Mather Head M 67 Malster, Chelsea Pensioner, Lancashire, Gohune (ok it's obviously not right, but I can't read it any better)
Mary Mather Wife M 59 Ireland

For Gohune read Golborne!

[erika]

Well done Mary, it's looking interesting now

Just found that 1st marriage?????? entry, but it can't be right as the father's name was William.

There's no other earlier marriages on Ancestry for Thomas Hawley in the Liverpool collection so far, but will carry on looking until my dinner's ready

Cheers
Erika

[MaryA]

In 1851 on the previous census page to those found above

Boundary Street, North Side, Corner No. 1 Court, Kirkdale, Lancashire
Thomas Halley Head M 37 Dock Labourer Lancashire Golbourn
Mary Wife M 32 Kent Woolwich
Peter son 14 Dock Labourer Lancashire Golbourn
HO107; Piece: 2190; Folio: 334; Page: 39

[MaryA]

Golbourne/Golborne or however they like to spell it would seem to be right, popping up everywhere.

I bet they made a stay there before coming to Liverpool, and Mary Ann met Thomas there, too much of a coincidence otherwise, don't you think?

[MaryA]

There's a possible on the Lancashire OPC site
Marriage: 19 Feb 1833 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England
Thomas Hawley - this Parish
Ann Calland - (X), this Parish
Witness: Thomas Tyrer, (X); Thos. Walker
Married by Banns by: Thomas. J. Whittington Curate
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1834, Page 531, Entry 1591
Source: FHL Film 1885709

but can't find any entries for young Peter.

[MaryA]

Rec'd 10th July, 1832
His Majesty's Royal Regiment of Artillery Second Batallion
Whereof Lieut General Sir James Kempt GCB and GCH is Colonel
John Mather Gunner and Driver
Born in the Parish of Goburn in Lancaster, by Trade a Weaver
Attested for the Royal Regiment of Artillery at Wigan, Lancaster
on 24th May 1805 at the age of 18 years.
1st Service After the age of 18 years which he is entitled to reckon up to 30th June 1832 is Twenty Five Years Ninety One Days.
From 1st April 1805 to 30th June 1832.

It would seem that he spent nine months in France from 14 June 1815 to 6 March 1876 and the remainder in Great Britain and Ireland and the cause of his discharge is lameness of the left leg from a scald. Varicose veins.
His character is said to be "Indifferent".
The Principal Medical Officer at Woolwich considered him unfit for service after a considerable period of treatment in the Royal Ordnance Hospital and was likely to be permanently disqualified for military duty.
He was to receive a Pension of One Shilling and Three Pence a day commencing 1st July 1832.
At the timer of his Discharge he was 45 1/4 years of age, 5 feet 5 1/2 inches in height, Dark Brown Hair, Grey eyes and a dark complexion.
He received from Capt Adjt Otway at Woolwich on 30th June 1832 - 3 days marching allowance to carry him, his wife and one child to Wigan, Lancashire, the place of his enlistment, and a Certificate for a passage by canal from London to Stockton Quay for himself, wife and child.

[MaryA]

There is a burial record at St Anthony's (RC) for Thomas Hawley of Collingwood Street on 21st December 1856.

[joan-3]

Hi welcome to the forum Joan.

Nice one Erika, I just found that 1841 census, hopefully it would give some clues as to Thomas's age, so he would be between 30 and 35 in 1851, Woodstock Street being near Lime Kiln Lane and not far from Boundary Street so chances are it might be the same man.

Joan who were the witnesses on the marriage certificate?

I have walked down Boundary Street in 1851 and there are not many houses listed, I'm wondering if some have been missed off, they should be there judging by the date of the baptism.

Do you have any idea if Thomas had any siblings?

Hi ,the witness were joseph hasting & margaret parker, i have a lot to take in here with all the replys,thank you all

[joan-3]

Hi Joan and welcome to the forum where hopefully you will receive a lot of help. They are a great bunch on here and turn up some amazing finds

Not sure whether these finds are any help, but here goes anyway.

Catholic Baptisms
Thomas Hawley father Thomas Hawley, mother Birgetta Burns
at St Nicholas
Born 12 July 1821, Baptised 22 July 1821

1841 Census
Thomas Hawley age 20 b abt 1821 Lancashire Labourer
William Hawley age 15
Woodstock St, Liverpool
Piece 564, Book 12, Folio 6, Page 4


Marriage June qtr 1842
Thomas Hawley and Ann Doby at Our Lady St Nicholas and St Anne
( maybe 1st marriage?)

Cheers
Erika

Hi Erika, thank you for your help, i will take a look at the baptism, the 1841 census is not the one as father is william, i will look at the marriage to ann doby, all the help i have had is just great, thanks to you all

[joan-3]

Hi welcome to the forum Joan.

Nice one Erika, I just found that 1841 census, hopefully it would give some clues as to Thomas's age, so he would be between 30 and 35 in 1851, Woodstock Street being near Lime Kiln Lane and not far from Boundary Street so chances are it might be the same man.

Joan who were the witnesses on the marriage certificate?

I have walked down Boundary Street in 1851 and there are not many houses listed, I'm wondering if some have been missed off, they should be there judging by the date of the baptism.

Do you have any idea if Thomas had any siblings?

Hi mary, I dont know if thomas had any siblings

[joan-3]

Hi to all who have sent me replys, i never expected to get so much back in so short time,
I will have a good look at what every has sent me tomorrow, i can not thank you all enough
you are a great bunch of people, thanking you all so very much
joan

[MaryA]

the 1841 census is not the one as father is william

I would seriously consider the 1841 census, as William is younger than Thomas I would suspect that he is a brother and as they are so young living on their own it may indicate that the parents had already deceased.

[wkhastings]

Mary, May I ask please where you found this? John Mather is my four greats grandfather. His wife's name was Mary. They had two daughters, Mary Ann who married Thomas Hawley (witnessed by Joseph Hasting); and Elizabeth who married Joseph Easton (the spelling of which is phonetic - I think he is the same person, Joseph Hasting, who witnessed Mary Ann's marriage, because Mary Ann witnessed her sister Elizabeth's marriage to Joseph). The Hastings moved to Canada and standardised the spelling of their name to Hastings. The Hawleys remained in Britain, and I am now in touch with with the descendants of Mary Ann Mather Hawley, my closest British relatives. I have been trying to trace back both the Mather side and the Hastings side, and your discovery of John Mather's military record is amazing! I am curious though as to why the record says he had only one child. Both of his daughters are recorded as being born in Woolwich Kent, which is consistent with this military record.

Rec'd 10th July, 1832
His Majesty's Royal Regiment of Artillery Second Batallion
Whereof Lieut General Sir James Kempt GCB and GCH is Colonel
John Mather Gunner and Driver
Born in the Parish of Goburn in Lancaster, by Trade a Weaver
Attested for the Royal Regiment of Artillery at Wigan, Lancaster
on 24th May 1805 at the age of 18 years.
1st Service After the age of 18 years which he is entitled to reckon up to 30th June 1832 is Twenty Five Years Ninety One Days.
From 1st April 1805 to 30th June 1832.

It would seem that he spent nine months in France from 14 June 1815 to 6 March 1876 and the remainder in Great Britain and Ireland and the cause of his discharge is lameness of the left leg from a scald. Varicose veins.
His character is said to be "Indifferent".
The Principal Medical Officer at Woolwich considered him unfit for service after a considerable period of treatment in the Royal Ordnance Hospital and was likely to be permanently disqualified for military duty.
He was to receive a Pension of One Shilling and Three Pence a day commencing 1st July 1832.
At the timer of his Discharge he was 45 1/4 years of age, 5 feet 5 1/2 inches in height, Dark Brown Hair, Grey eyes and a dark complexion.
He received from Capt Adjt Otway at Woolwich on 30th June 1832 - 3 days marching allowance to carry him, his wife and one child to Wigan, Lancashire, the place of his enlistment, and a Certificate for a passage by canal from London to Stockton Quay for himself, wife and child.

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Oh dear, my message was three years ago and I'm going to have do research again to find it, although I suspect that it was from either the Service or Pension Records available on Ancestry.

I will have a look and try to come back to you, but I would have transcribed only what I saw on the documents, perhaps at the time it was written he had only one child .....

A member of the Society has written a book which covers the geographical area of Golborne, I have sent her a message to see if I got the information from that, will get back to you when I hear.

[Hilary]

John Mather's papers are on Find My Past. The papers are his To Pension Records the National Archives may hold his service records somewhere.

The mention of only one child could be that his other children were no longer classed as children and were making their own way in the world. Therefore only one child would have been dependant on their father.