Childwall look-up if possible

[Barbara B]

If anyone is in the records office I would be grateful for a marriage look-up. The couple concerned are Elizabeth Ashton and Thomas Cave. The marriage took place at Childwall All Saints in the July quarter of 1866. I would really like to know the name and occupation of the groom's father. I know the bride's father and his occupation - he's Ralph Ashton, cabinet maker. Thomas is the father of Annie - married to Arthur Oubridge (who was not a rat!) I'm finding Thomas Cave a bit of a mystery, there's a possible christening in 1843 with parents William and Ellen but I'm not sure. There are also two census entries, 1851 as a lodger (aged 8 ) with James Yates and as a servant in 1861 with a Cave family. Again I'm not sure.
Thanks in advance for any help
Barbara

[dickiesam]

Hi Barbara,
Is this your TC in 1871?

RG10 - Piece: 3839 - Folio: 46 - Page: 38
Address: Green Side, West Derby, Liverpool
CAVE, Thomas Head 27 1844 - Ormskirk, Lancashire
CAVE, Elizabeth Wife 25 1846 - Liverpool
CAVE, John Son 5 Liverpool
CAVE, Robert W Son 3 Liverpool
CAVE, Frank Son 0 Liverpool

[dickiesam]

If I have the right man in 1871, this could be him in 1851...

HO107 - Piece: 2196 - Folio: 560 - Page: 38
Reg. District: Ormskirk; Sub District: North Meols; Parish: North Meols
Address: Church Town Sugar Brow, North Meols, Lancashire
CAVE, John Lodger Married 40 Peddler Ireland
CAVE, Ann Lodger Married 44 Peddler Ireland
CAVE, Michal Lodger Son 12 With His Father - North Meols, Lancashire
CAVE, Thomas Lodger Son 6 With His Father - North Meols, Lancashire
CAVE, Margeret Lodger Dtr 4 With Her Father - North Meols, Lancashire

[MaryA]

If it is the right one, there are two possible births on FreeBMD
Jun 1843 CAVE Thomas Prescot 20 713
and
Jun 1844 Cave Thomas Ormskirk 21 618
but only one baptism on Lancs OPC
Baptisms: 23 Apr 1843 St Thomas, Lydiate, Lancashire, England
Thomas Cave - Child of Thomas Cave & Elizabeth
Abode: Downholland
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: Rgr. Bickerstaffe
Register: Baptisms 1841 - 1876, Page 5, Entry 34
Source: LDS Film 1849659

[MaryA]

Seems a little bit iffy, 1861 has a couple, one the son of John & Jane and the other a boarder, Apprentice Wheelwright, both born Ormskirk the same year but both living in Everton, which is rather far from Childwall to be marrying, mind you there's nothing to say that Elizabeth lived there even though he didn't.

Father's name, as Barbara says, is a must, there is another couple with a Thomas born Liverpool and baptised in St Peter's, parents Thomas and Jane (occupation wheelwright so could be linked to the second one above?)

[dickiesam]

If I have the right man in 1871, this could be him in 1851...

HO107 - Piece: 2196 - Folio: 560 - Page: 38
Reg. District: Ormskirk; Sub District: North Meols; Parish: North Meols
Address: Church Town Sugar Brow, North Meols, Lancashire
CAVE, John Lodger Married 40 Peddler Ireland
CAVE, Ann Lodger Married 44 Peddler Ireland
CAVE, Michal Lodger Son 12 With His Father - North Meols, Lancashire
CAVE, Thomas Lodger Son 6 With His Father - North Meols, Lancashire
CAVE, Margeret Lodger Dtr 4 With Her Father - North Meols, Lancashire

Unfortunately one of them is wrong! In 1861 TC born North Meols is with his widowed mother Ann and he's a railway porter, not a shipwright.
RG09 - Piece: 2760 - Folio: 120 - Page: 35
Registration District: Ormskirk; Civil Parish: North Meols
Address: Little London, North Meols.

[Barbara B]

Thanks to everyone for the input. My Thomas was born in Little Woolton so I think the Ormskirk and Upholland links are both red herrings (sorry, I forgot to put that in the original post!). As I said he's a bit of a mystery which is why I would love to find out who his Dad was.
Barbara

[Tina]

Barbara, happy memories of Arthur the Rat.. who was a decent bloke after all.

[Barbara B]

He certainly was, Tina.
I've just looked up his marriage to Annie and her father, the elusive Thomas, is described as a wheelwright on the certificate. There must be some connection with the other Cave family if only I can find it!

[dickiesam]

My Thomas was born in Little Woolton

I might have missed it, but how do you know where he was born? From a census?

[MaryA]

Please let us know if you get a response from other forums as it will save duplicated visits.

I have also been reminded that the Childwall Parish register microfilm has been stolen from the Liverpool Record Office last year and until they obtain a copy they may not have it available for perusal.

[Tex T]

If it helps anyone, there is a microfilm copy of the Childwall parish register at Huyton library, or at least there was last year.

I made a trip to Liverpool to look at their copy last year, only to find it missing. If only I has known, particularly as I had passed Huyton library while on the bus to reach Liverpool!

[simone]

1891 census
135 Earle Street, Earlestown
RG12; Piece: 3069; Folio: 21; Page: 35
Thomas Cave 49 wheelwright, b Little Woolton
Elizabeth Cave 45 b Much woolton
Thomas Ashton Cave 22 b Much Woolton clerk
William Ashton Cave 22 b Much Woolton wagon maker
Annie Wright Cave 18 b Newton in Makerfield Dressmaker apprentice
Serge Eleanor Cave 9 b Newton in Makerfield


1881
RG11; Piece: 3786; Folio: 17; Page: 27
93 Earle St
Thomas Cave 37 b Little Woolton, Foreman at Timber yard
Elizabeth Cave 35 b Much Woolton
Thomas Cave 12 b Much Woolton
William Cave 12 b Much Woolton
Annie W. Cave 8 b earlestown

1871
RG10; Piece: 3899; Folio: 47; Page: 27
Earle Street, Earlestown
Thomas Cave 27 wheelwright, b Little Woolton
Elizabeth Cave 25 b Much Woolton
Elizabeth Cave 4
Thomas A Cave 2
William A Cave 2




I know the age is a bit out but have you looked at this family?
1861
RG 9; Piece: 2846; Folio: 71; Page: 18
Cuckoo Hollow, Bury
Thomas Cave 52, wheelwright, b Childwall, transcribed as Shilawell
Ann Cave 39 b Holywell, Wales
Thomas Henry Cave 10 b Childwall
Mary Ann Cave 8 b Childwall
James Cave 6 b Bury
John Cave 3 Monthsb Bury

[simone]

sorry maybe not then

1871 census
Smithdown Lane
RG10; Piece: 3845; Folio: 82; Page: 23
Thomas Mary Cave 21 printer b Wavertree
Elizabeth Cave 23 b n wales

parents and siblings at Back Mount Vernon Grove, West Derby
RG10; Piece: 3841; Folio: 116; Page: 28;

[simone]

Hi Barbara

I will try and get this for you this afternoon, unless you hear from someone else about it. I'll check before I leave work

[Hilary]

Is your Thomas this one?

Thomas Cave son of William and Ellen christened 6 April 1843 at Hale.

Then in 1851 is a lodger with with James and Alice Yates in Wood Lane Little Woolton born Halewood which would tie in with Hale for baptism.

[Hilary]

Trying to tie James and Alice to the Caves

Marriage: 27 Dec 1835 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James Yates - (X), Labourer of This Parish
Alice Spencer - (X), Widow of This Parish
Witness: Edward Foster, (X); Jane Yates, (X)
Married by Banns by: Richard Appleton, Curate

I wonder what Alice's maiden name was?

William Cave possibly Thomas' father remarries in 1855 to Ellen Smith (marriage on Ancestry). Halewood burials records 3 Caive children being buried there all coming from Liverpool and one has the address he is living at in 1871 so it seems likely that this William Cave has strong connections to the area.

However I cannot find the first marriage of William Cave also to an Ellen nor can I find the first marriage of Alice Spencer to see what her connection to the Caves is.

[Barbara B]

DS - yes I did have him on a couple of censuses and he's the one Simone identified in Earlestown. It's a while since I needed any look-ups so I'm a bit out of practice.
Thank you very much Simone for your offer, it's much appreciated. Can't believe someone would steal a microfilm - they must be really desperate to keep the information on it! Perhaps it showed some dark family secret.

[Hilary]

What do you think of the Thomas Cave I found?

[Barbara B]

Sorry Hilary, I meant to reply to you. I found Thomas with parents Thomas and Ellen as well but I can't be sure if it's the right one as I can't find any other record of them. It's the only one that fits so far, though.
I thought I'd had a bright idea when I found Thomas remarried in Wales in 1901 + 10 (his son is with him so I know it's the right one) Then I found the marriage - 1897 in Warrington. That's when I hit the brick wall. No marriage records on OLPC for a Cave/Shaw marriage for that date. Argh!