JOHN WILLIAM DAVIES AND NORAH PRENDERGAST

[simone]

Btw have you got nans marriage certificate, what does it say? Who witnessed it and what addresses.

Also can you remember anything about the death of the child to john and honora.

[simone]

1881
RG11; Piece: 3609; Folio: 23; Page: 39
46 Adlington Street
John Prendergast 36 labourer, b Co Mayo
Annie Prendergast 30 b Liverpool
John Prendergast 11
Mary Prendergast 5
Annie Prendergast 2 mths

at the same address is Patrick Gallagher 32 and his wife Annie 26 and his mother in law Honora Joyce 50 b Co Mayo, and sister in law Catherine Joyce age 13.
Sarah Prendergast 32 sister in law, basket woman b Liverpool

So this means Honora/Ann's mum is Honora, but Patrick wife would also be a daughter, but calling her Annie too

[simone]

just had a bit of a dabble this afternoon.... tried to track the children of John and Honora Prendergast... wasn't easy

Thought Patrick may have married Ann Dalton and then had a few kiddies...found the baptisms, found Patrick and Ann with kids on census... but Patrick's age not right, but that's nothing new is it. Having said that they are in same vicinity as the Joyce familes... Back Queen Ann Street, Evans Street...

found a maybe for son John but his age out too

was hoping that you Nora may have been with one of them or witnessed a marriage or a godmother maybe, but got nothing in that regard for her

Still don't know where Ann b c 1881 is after 1891... could she be Nora?

The tree you put on gets me right confused ... it's all higgledy piggledy, had your work cut out there
I reckon she has got confused herself when filling it in

Do you have the marriage certs for Sarah's siblings, Jessie May or Norah?

Simone x

[Sue H]

Here we go


auntie norahs.........nan and grandad were witness, dont know who other was

[Sue H]

nan and grandad ...........witness grandads brother and nora
The address they are at is a relation of grandads.........would have to ask ted to confirm who it was again tho

[Sue H]

johns death certificate........mother sara signed it.......

[Sue H]

Jessie may and charley............noticed something on this as I was posting it witness ELLEN L FARRER .......this I think is the daughter of Alathea Frances Smart (Sara West Smart/Davies/Jones younger sister.........I have also found another sister Elizabeth Georgina Smart married James Davies, who was the brother of William Davies, Sara's first husband) and George Farrer they married on 30th May 1886 at Christ Church Kennsington only found this the other day, but such an unusal name leapt out at me (spent all of my time looking for **** Norah!!)...........same church as the baptisms of the Honora Prendergast and Joyce family!! So I know the connection is right for John William Davies....Smart family

The address once again is Sara Jones.........she was at this house quite a while infact until her death

[Sue H]

And just for good luck Sara Jones death certificate and a picture of the elusive Nora Prendergast!!

[Sue H]

Finally

I too start a new tree last night with the Prendergast and the Joyces.......found nothing after 1891.

[simone]

That's a good find Sue so they are at least in same area

it's still looking likely, but wish we could get something with Norah's name on for definite.

Was hoping to look tonight, but got to take make tea now, and then have been pushed into taking son to see Les Miserables..... so I'm in for a cheerful evening... I'll be sobbing my eyes out later no doubt

Simone x

[simone]

Finally

I too start a new tree last night with the Prendergast and the Joyces.......found nothing after 1891.

no I was struggling after 1891... thought I found son Patrick, by using his son Edward's name, with parents Patrick and Ann, no surname in search box..... came up as something like Panderport!! no wonder we can't find anyone

[simone]

Jessie may and charley............noticed something on this as I was posting it witness ELLEN L FARRER .......this I think is the daughter of Alathea Frances Smart (Sara West Smart/Davies/Jones younger sister.........I have also found another sister Elizabeth Georgina Smart married James Davies, who was the brother of William Davies, Sara's first husband) and George Farrer they married on 30th May 1886 at Christ Church Kennsington only found this the other day, but such an unusal name leapt out at me (spent all of my time looking for **** Norah!!)...........same church as the baptisms of the Honora Prendergast and Joyce family!! So I know the connection is right for John William Davies....Smart family

The address once again is Sara Jones.........she was at this house quite a while infact until her death

just been having a look Sue.. do you mean Christ Church Kensington?
As far as I can see John Prendergast and Honora Joyce batised their children at Holy Cross... is this the same church... sorry bit confused now

(notice another Smart sister's marriage, Olive Jane in 1884 to Thomas Taylor at Toxteth St Clement)

[Sue H]

youre right Simone

Was thinking Kensington........Edge Hill.......Lovat Street.........youre right Holy Cross church, not Christ Church.

[simone]

HI Sue

Still can't get the elusive link... been looking through the parish records again....
don't know what happened to that Ann age 2 mths in 1881,
2 birth reg's Sep q 1881, one for Hannah, one for Ann...
possible death for Hannah b c 1882, in 1887 age 5..

could Ann be Nora? even if the birth turned out to be right one to John and Honora still can't prove the link to your Nora

Simone x

[Alison C]

Hello,
There are possible deaths on FreeBMD for each of the Prendergast children except for Mary and Annie:

Patrick Penderegast died Q3 1869, aged 1 (Liverpool, 8b 107)
John Prendergast died Q2 1894, aged 24 (Liverpool, 8b, 70)
Michael Pendergast died Q3 1872, aged 0 (Liverpool, 8b, 100)
Thomas Prendergast died Q3 1892, aged 9 (Liverpool, 8b, 48)

That would only leave Mary and Annie alive in 1901.

I can see a birth reg for Honora born 1878 (Annie Pendergast born Q4 1878 Liverpool, 8b, 96) but there does not seem to be a corresponding death reg prior to the 1881 census
Also, I can't see a birth reg for the "2mth old" Annie in 1881. It does make me wonder if the "2mth" was some sort of transcription error and it should have said 2yrs

Alison

[simone]

HI Sue

Still can't get the elusive link... been looking through the parish records again....
don't know what happened to that Ann age 2 mths in 1881,
2 birth reg's Sep q 1881, one for Hannah, one for Ann...
possible death for Hannah b c 1882, in 1887 age 5..

could Ann be Nora? even if the birth turned out to be right one to John and Honora still can't prove the link to your Nora

Simone x

Hi Alison

Good finds re the deaths.. I did find a birth reg that could fit for Ann, but it is Pendergast not Prendergast...


Sep 1881
Pendergast
Ann
Liverpool
8b
34


when we were originally looking at all this Sue thought there was a death for Honora b 1878 a short time later, but I can't see it

definitely think that Ann, age 2 mths could be Nora, can't get anything to prove it though and like you say 2mths could be a mistake, although you would think they could tell the difference

Simone x

[simone]

Am I clutching at straws here....

decided to try and find dad John Prendergast in 1901... as I can't find Mary or Ann in 1901, can't see a marriage for Mary or death or death yet for John...

1901 census
RG13; Piece: 4737; Folio: 113; Page: 14
58 Stoddart Street, South Shields
William L Usher 26 b St Helens, mariner
Mary Usher 24 b Liverpool
Jane A Usher 7 Mo b Durham, Tyne Dock
John Prendergast 50 boarder, labourer, Liverpool

place of birth should really be Ireland for John, but if he has come from Liverpool maybe that's what they put

this must be Mary surely, married to William Usher
did Norah Davies not marry Sydney Usher

coincidence or not..... i hope not because this could be the link

[simone]

can't see the marriage for William to Mary, unless she had been married before, so under another name

[simone]

found it

Sep q 1899
William Surtees Usher
May Josephine Prendergast
S. Shields
10a 1125

Norah Davies and Sydney Usher married much later in 1948, but Sydney's dad William John was a Mariner as was William Surtees whose Master and Mates papers are on Ancestry.....need to see if related, have these families been in connected all these years. Looks like William's parents were George R Usher b 1853 Durham and Jane b St Helens.
1891 census
RG12; Piece: 4161; Folio: 118; Page: 53

Seems such a coincidence doesn't it
sure I've heard of the name William Surtees Usher before, maybe Sue has

just off to watch Mr Selfridge now

Simone x

[simone]

yay

here it is folks

1910 + 1 census
58 Revesby St, South Shields
RG14; Piece: 30334;
May Usher 34 b Liverpool
Jenaie Usher 10
John Usher 8
Florence Usher 5
Sydney Usher 3


so Norah Davies b 1903 married her cousin, is this it... .
Sydney names his dad as William John Usher on marriage.. should it be William Surtees Usher .. who by the way is at sea in 1910+1 RG14; Piece: 2882... born St Helens on this one, 2nd Master..transcribed as single, but married on image
is that why I remeber the name, weren't we looking for William John and could only find a William Surtees.

so I reckon that means Ann is Nora...although not found her in 1901 yet... and all links back to Prendergast/Joyce
what do you think folks
Mission accomplished
definitely watching Mr Selfridge now....