JOHN WILLIAM DAVIES AND NORAH PRENDERGAST

[Sue H]

Hi Bert

48 Thames Street, is on Jessie May marriage certificate 1924. Sara West Jones death certificate 1936

It is also the address on the military papers and on the police letter

What have you spotted that makes this incorrect?

[Sue H]

Also just thought Bert he is buried in the family grave with his father and other members of his family

[Bertieone]

Hi Sue,

The army record has John in 1915, 36 years and 3 months old, gives a birth date, 1878/79,
in the police letter dated 1921, Sarah states she remarried 39 years previous when John was 4 years old, that gives a marriage date 1882 ish, so who did she marry if she married William Jones in 1890.
Also where did John get her name of Sarah Jones Hughes from as next of Kin in 1915. If that address appears on a few documents, something doesn't seem right.

[simone]

Hi Bert

Sara West Smart married William Davies 5th Aug 1877
William Jones 11th June 1890 so on Johns death she had been married about 25 years.

John William Davies
Baptism Date: 26 May 1878
Parish: Edge Hill St Nathaniel
Father's Name: William Davies
Mother's Name: Sarah West Davies


what a pickle Sue... this family are laeding youa right merry dance quite appropriate really

funny how they named a child Jessie May... must have liked/admired Jessie May Templeton

[Sue H]

Simone

The more I look the more I drowned

Just read what Berts picked up on John's Army records

[Sue H]

Hi Bert

Why would they visit 6 year after his death.......his death is recorded correctly on his documents as 24.12.1915....in hospital........his mother states he was a vocalist........even though he was in the army!!

The address, the family, birth certificates, marriage and death all point to this being the correct family

Why she is down as Sara Jones Hughes.......cant say. In 1921 on the letter she was still Sara Jones...............she died in 1936 as Sara Jones.

[simone]

has she had another husband then, either c 1882, or after 1911... perhaps she's got a collection

both of her marraiges are on Ancestry for 1877 and 1890, and they both follow ok, doesn't look like there could have been another in between maybe she just can't do the maths whe she says 39 years

[dickiesam]

Just a query of sorts....
Could there have been two John William Davies? And Sara Jones Hughes was informed of the death of the wrong man and she then wrongly claimed a war pension? One JWD was a music hall vocalist and the other a journeyman painter?

Or did one die and the other was a deserter? There were many instances of mistaken identity. What was the actual purpose of that police visit 6 years later? I may have missed something.

[simone]

Hi Brian

The Police statement says:
Army Enquiry re Next of Kin of the late J W Davies, 48 Thames Street.
With reference to the attached I beg to report that today I called at the A/a and there saw Mrs SW Jones mother of the late Pte J W Davies who stated that she had re married thirty nine years ago and the son referred to was only then 4 years old. She further states that she has never received any communication from the military authorities in reference to the Plaque and scroll in respect of her son. She still resides at this address.

It is dated 13/5/21.

[Sue H]

John William Davies.......it seems had many occupations

Painter/Journeyman....proffessional singer/artiste ...gymnast.....vocalist all the same man confirmed by different certificates and same addresses

Jessie and Norah (daughter) had him down as journey man on their marriage certificates..........nan Sara had him down as proffesional singer

[Bertieone]

Hi Sue,

In 1921 there was a lot of unfinished business between the services and relatives, so nothing can be read in to that. We can only surmise a police involvement and letter would only be some sort of check on identity and Sarah was the rightful recipient of what was to come.

Nothing in the Army papers suggests there are 2 different soldiers involved. If other documents in your possession carry the address of Thames St, that is proof Sarah Jones Hughes is the correct person. Even if Sarah was a bad mathematician and got the remarried 39 years ago wrong, I doubt if she would make the mistake her son was only 4 years old compared to 12 years old, which he would have been when she married William Jones in 1890. Just a niggle that need looking in to.

[Bertieone]

Sue,

Just a thought, could it be, should it be, 39 years and John was 4 when his father died,
When did John's father die?

[Sue H]

Hi Bert

He died 4 th Jan 1886.....address at time of death 18 Thames Street, he was 29.

John was 6, but his younger brother would have been 4 (Charles Davies 1882-1917)

[Bertieone]

Hi Sue,

In 1921 Sarah's mind must have been in turmoil having recently lost 2 sons and can be forgiven getting some facts mixed up. I wonder if William's full name was Jones Hughes and the Hughes was not recorded a the marriage cert, something to consider when looking further back.

[Sue H]

No got his birth certificate...........the Hughes is a bit of a puzzle.........as I say Hughes was eventually my Nan's married name

I thought someone had made a mistake........and I have said all along there was always a family seceret.......but I am convinced its is with Norah Prendergast

What I have done though is started a fresh tree for grandad just incase I pick something up.........but having spoken to someone who has built a very comprehesive Hughes tree........he doesnt think there is any direct connection

[simone]

Hi Sue

remind me ... did you find Jessie May West/Davies in 1911? why isn't she with Norah? is she with Sarah somewhere?

Also have you found anything out about Exe Street.. it's mentioned on a couple of documents isn't it but I can't see where it is...

Simone x

[simone]

ahh found her
RG14; Piece: 22270
16 Liffey Street
William Jones 60
Lara West Jones 55 dressmaker, b London
Jessie May Daniel grandchild

[MaryA]

Exe Street
http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co. ... laz/T7.htm near Parliament Street. Beaumont Street is still there.

[simone]

Thanks Mary... right next door to Thames Street I see

[simone]

Hi Sue

Your Norah is a real mystery woman

I did a blanket search on FreeBmd, Ancestry, Lancs BMD for Nora/Norah Prendergast didn't use any year or county. There are few with the name at birth. The earliest I seem to get is 1879


Nora Prendergast
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1879
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 432

using http://www.toshop.com/censuscalc.cfm I reckon this one is daughter of James and Jane who we have already ruled out

Your Norah born about the same time but can't see a reg

I wonderd about this one

Female Prendergast
Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1880
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 139

tried to tie up Prendergast females born in Liverpool area 1880 on 1881 census
there is an Annie F but her birth is registered. can't see any other that would fit
wonder if this reg could be Norah

have you tried for any certificates?
also wonder if she was given another name but chose Norah for herself.

having said that, found this reg, maybe she didn't have any name

Female
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1880
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 640


Simone x