The Murray Family of Liverpool

[dickiesam]

Hi all,

wait for DS to confirm, I think Simone is correct, year either side etc, mention of mothers maiden would be a must I would think. I've not ordered a birth cert for a while either.

Hi folks....
Re the missing Reference Checking facility. There's a work-around!

When you go to the GRO site http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certi ... efault.asp and get to the 'Certificate choice' page, after ticking the relevant Birth or Marriage Cert box there's a question at the bottom asking whether the GRO reference is known. Tick the 'No' box and just enter the year of the birth you are interested in. Even if you do know the Index Reference [Qtr, Volume and Page numbers, etc], don't enter anything else here.

Note this doesn't work for Death Certificates as very little information is recorded that can be used for checking apart from the name of the deceased.

The 'Delivery address details' page comes next, and after that a new page will open allowing you to enter the names of the parents including the mother's maiden name in the case of a birth cert application. The GRO will do a search 1 year either side of the given year. If they don't find the cert with the exact details you specified they will refund the full fee.

[winstonevertongroovy]

Nice 1 Dickie I will get onto it.

[winstonevertongroovy]

One thing I've just thought of, I was hoping to get the birth certificate to confirm the name of his father/mother but if I put the maiden name of Grace in all that confirms is that Grace Murray had a son called Peter, not that it was my Grandad, or am I getting that wrong & this Peter & Grace definitely are my Great Grandparents? (sorry I know I'm a nuisance )
Lee

[Bertieone]

Lee,

Everything thus far points towards Peter and Grace being the correct ones, Grace of course might not be on either of them, I'd take the punt if it was me, I can't see another way of moving on, especially as no baptism can be found.

[winstonevertongroovy]

Lee,

Everything thus far points towards Peter and Grace being the correct ones, Grace of course might not be on either of them, I'd take the punt if it was me, I can't see another way of moving on, especially as no baptism can be found.

Hi Bert, yes I've just been having a good look ay the info that has been provided to me and it does look a good bet doesn't it, I've just this minute come off the phone to a merchant navy care home on the Wirral,(which I think is the only one of it's kind in the country), where I think my Uncle George may be living, he is the last remaining child of my Grandad living so could be my best bet for confirmation, they are going to phone me back later as they don't have anyone in the main building of that name but they have self contained accommodation in the grounds where he may live so I will let you know how I get on in a bit.
Lee

[Katie]

I think Simone found Peter and Grace Murray on the 1881 residing with a Anthony Carruthers who was brother to Grace so that would make Grace maiden name Carruthers.

[simone]

Yes I know what you mean Lee.

As far as I can see

Peter b c 1882/1883
we know of a discrepancy with the marriage, giving his birth as c 1889/1890, but there aren't any that fit
we know for definite from his marriage that his father was Peter also.

the only other Peter son of Peter that could possibly fit age wise seems to be son of Peter and Ann.. This Peter is a shepherd on the 1891 census. The baptims in 1882 states that he is Farmer. The family is living on Edge Lane side of Liverpool. So I don't think they are your family..

Other Peter's don't have the right father's name.

Your Peter fits in with Peter and Grace's family as to area/occupation/ and being in the same area as Mary Jane's family. Peter's siblings live in same road, Clifton St in fact.

Also the other Peter's have baptims on Ancestry that I seem to be able to tie up with the birth indexes. Peter son of Peter and Grace doesn't have a baptism, and I haven't been able to tie up any other with the Sep q 1883 registration.

Another way prove it may be to send for the birth certifaicate of the burial Katie found

18th March 1908
William Murray
11 months
48, Prince Edwin Lane
Public grave Section 7 Grave 233

Peter married from this address... I reckon it is likely to be the address of one of the siblings, Geroge or Thomas maybe?

likely birth reg?

William Murray
Date of Registration:
Apr-May-Jun 1907
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 477


Hope that makes some sense

Simone x

[simone]

This looks like the death reg for the baby William, which is another idea to pursue


William Murr_Y
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1908
Date of Registration:
Jan-Feb-Mar 1908
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page:436

correction sent to Anc* re name

[winstonevertongroovy]

Just spoke to my Uncle George, (last remaining child alive of my Grandad & Nin's), and he vaguely remembers having Uncles called George & Thomas but has no recollection of his Grandmother's name & Grace didn't ring any bells with him. I haven't seen the guy in over 35 years and it was strange talking to someone who's voice no longer matches the image I still have of him in my head, the passing of time plays strange tricks with your mind, he made me promise to go up & visit him and said he has some photos he'd like to show me so hopefully by the time I get to do that I'll have a lot of info on my tree to show him.
Lee

[simone]

Hi Lee

Glad you've made contact. I suppose if his grandmother died before he was born maybe like many of us didn't take much interest as a child, and then as time passes there's no one to ask who would remember her. Good that he recollects the names George and Thomas, albeit vaguely. You never know, your conversation will probably get him thinking and maybe he will come up with something more by the time you see him.

Simone x

[winstonevertongroovy]

Hi all,

wait for DS to confirm, I think Simone is correct, year either side etc, mention of mothers maiden would be a must I would think. I've not ordered a birth cert for a while either.

Hi folks....
Re the missing Reference Checking facility. There's a work-around!

When you go to the GRO site and get to the 'Certificate choice' page, after ticking the relevant Birth or Marriage Cert box there's a question at the bottom asking whether the GRO reference is known. Tick the 'No' box and just enter the year of the birth you are interested in. Even if you do know the Index Reference [Qtr, Volume and Page numbers, etc], don't enter anything else here.

Note this doesn't work for Death Certificates as very little information is recorded that can be used for checking apart from the name of the deceased.

The 'Delivery address details' page comes next, and after that a new page will open allowing you to enter the names of the parents including the mother's maiden name in the case of a birth cert application. The GRO will do a search 1 year either side of the given year. If they don't find the cert with the exact details you specified they will refund the full fee.

I've just been on the Liverpool City Council website trying to order the birth certificate but things did not happen in the order you have stated, 1st of all I was on the family history certificates page & clicked apply online , I then chose 'family history birth certificate application' but there was no question about a GRO reference, the next page requested delivery details and I was then taken to a page that asked for lots of details about the person I was applying for but I HAD to state a reference number or it would not allow me to go on. I've left it for now because obviously I am doing something wrong.

[MaryA]

The site to use for the instructions given by Dickiesam is www.gro.gov.uk NOT the Liverpool Council site, sorry it was a misunderstanding.

[simone]

Hi

Sorry Lee the site we were talking about is The General Register Office http://www.gro.gov.uk

[simone]

Snap Mary

[dickiesam]

Sorry about the problem Lee. My apologies! I thought from previous posts in this thread you would know the GRO is General Registry Office in Southport, the link to which is as MaryA defined.

I will amend my post now and in any future usage to include the website URL for the GRO.

[dickiesam]

In view of the GRO mix-up you might find this a useful tip for keeping track of information, in particular URLs or links to various sites.

I don't know what other folk do but I have a folder on my desktop in which I keep all the URLs [links] that I come across with a connection to genealogy that I think I will find useful.

To start you create a new folder by right clicking on a blank area of your desktop and then left click on New in the drop-down menu. In the next window left click on New Folder. Call it Genealogy or Family History or something like that, and simply left click. Drag the folder to somewhere convenient on the desktop.

Whenever you get a new URL simply open the folder, select File > New > Shortcut and follow the instructions. To access any saved URL simply click on the shortcut. Below is a snip of my Genealogy folder which contains 124 URLs at the moment.

[winstonevertongroovy]

Sorted guys, I used the Liverpool site to order my dad's birth cert. but now I know about this one & have saved it to my favourites. I entered the year only as you said,(in fact it told me to enter 01/01/1883 which I did), & it said it would search a year each side as you stated, I then entered his parents names Peter & Grace & that was that. I don't expect this to give me any more info than I already have as it looks pretty sure that Peter & Grace were his parents,(fingers crossed), but it's another step along the way.........now for Peter Seniors family in IRELAND!!!!, talk about a spanner in the works lol, it looks like I'll have to bin all my Scottish Murray paraphernalia now,(did I tell you I even have a very small plot of land in the Highlands and a title of Laird that my wife bought me for my 50th ), luckily I never got round to ordering the kilt,(& never will now as the Carruthers tartan is r*d which is a colour that I won't even spell let alone wear......it's a football thing), I'll have to look up the Irish Murray's tartan & hope it's Blue , you wouldn't believe how this 'revelation' has affected me.....not in a bad way mind as I love Ireland & the Irish,(where would Scousers be without them), but I've spent 40+ years telling anyone who would listen that I'm of Scottish heritage & proud of it, it came as a bit of a shock to my Uncle George on the phone before as well haha.
Anybody want to buy a used Haggis & a Tam 'o' Shanter
Lee

[simone]

But Grace was scottish so that counts

By the way, my g grandfather was really scottish apparantly, had the accent and everything according to family was he heck, he was born in tranmere workhouse

[winstonevertongroovy]

You know what Simone you're right, it does count, in fact being of Irish/Scottish descent feels good,(not that I've got anything against the English, after all my kids are English), I've just NEVER felt English at all.

[Katie]

And Simone it's only for you sitting with your fishing rod, trying to reel this Murray lot in, that hopefully Lee will now be able to carry on with his family history and not forgetting all those who helped, but like a dog with a bone!! "You never let go"