Ifield Family in London

[janeb]

I am venturing far south with this request

I have an Ifield family going back from Sidney Herbert (known as Ifold on birth certificate) born 1896 Hackney died 1959 whose father was Frederick William Ifield 15/9/1857-28/1/1933 and grandfather William Ifield who married Rebecca Wilson in 1857 at St Philips in Bethnal Green.
I cannot find deaths for William and Rebecca anywhere despite trying Ifold Ifould Ifield Highfield etc so any tips or clues would be very helpful. As it is an unusual name - mainly from the Kent area and William father was possibly Richard ifould I thought it would be easier but the brick wall exists

Thanks in advance for any help

Jane

[MaryA]

Could you perhaps give the details from the last census that you have them on, including references so that we have a starting point.

[Hilary]

At marriage William is a baker and age given would suggest a birth date about 1832. His father is Richard a carman.

The only census I can see William is 1901 when he says born Hoxton.

do you have him on any other census?

[janeb]

The censuses I have are 1881 1891 1901 1911 fro Frederick William but I cannot find William in any census
In 1881 Frederick is in King St St Luke Finsbury as Frederick Wm Hyfield wife Emily (nee Chamberlain)
The name of William comes from Freds marriage to Emily in 1877 and Freds birth in Sept 1857 where his father is William and mother Rebecca nee Wilson.
I have a 1861 census for a Frederick Wm Hyfold but he is in Wanstead with a Sarah who is stated to be his mother who is a servant so this does not add up. I cannot find anything in 1851 or 1841

It is a big puzzle! Thanks for trying to help.

Jane

[janeb]

Sorry the last post may be misleading
I do have a Richard Ifold in 1841 with a wife Elizabeth and son William aged 10 which would fit and they are in Steep in Hampshire. I do not know if they are the same family
J

[Tina]

Hi everyone, there's a tree in Anc which has Fredk Wms info birth to death and spouse but parents listed as Fredk Wm bn 1814 & Harriet Elizabeth Crisp bn 1815.

Added: I've found the widowed Fred Wm in 1861 with 2 children from the tree and no Fred Wm jr.
You have to wonder if this tree has errors??

[dickiesam]

Hello Jane,
You have mentioned several sightings of people in censuses. Because of the surname variations, as MaryA has asked already, it would be a big help if you could tell us the census summary page references for each census sighting.

The reference will be something like RG 10 - Piece: 47 - Folio: 5 - Page: 3. The RG10 refers to 1871; 1881 is RG11, 1891 is RG12 and so on. The 1841 and 1851 have prefixes HO107 instead of RG.

[janeb]

OK the censuses are as follows if I have the correct details

1861 Hyfold RG9/1060 153 page 15

1881 Hyfield RG11/363 page 2

1891 Ifield RG12/199 page 56

1901 Ifold RG13/218 page 27

All of these are Frederick William born in 1857

The 1841 for Richard Ifold and William in Steep is HO107/396/5

Jane

[MaryA]

Working backwards
1901 RG13; Piece: 1584; Folio: 167; Page: 27
39 Woodstock Street, Canning Town, West Ham,Essex
Fredk Ifold Head M 40 General Labourer Bow
Louisa Wife M 28 Kings Cross

RG13 - Piece: 218 - Folio: 88 - Page: 27
Address: 113 Elderfield Road, Hackney, London.
IFIELD, Frederick - 43 - Packing Case Maker - Hoxton, London
IFIELD, Emily - Wife - 42 - St Lukes, London.
With 6 of their children.

Marriage
18th December 1898 Poplar All Hallows, Tower Hamlets, London
Frederick Ifold 38 Widower Engine Fitter 57 Oban Street
Father Frederick William Ifold Architect
Louisa Priscilla Oldham 26 Spinster 57 Oban Street
Father John Thomas Oldham Bookbinder
Both appeared to have signed their names
Witnesses Earnest Goodacre and N(ancy) Walker

1891 RG12; Piece: 701; Folio: 72; Page: 14
Bromley Green, Warehorne, Kent
With the family of Lewis B (Waggoner) from Sussex Brede & Eliza Playford from Kent Orlestone and their children and another Lodger - Alfred Addy
John Ifield Lodger S 76 General Labourer Kent Shadoxhurst?

RG12 - Piece: 199 - Folio: 31 - Page: 56
Address: 169 Elderfield Road, Hackney, London
IFIELD, Frederick W - Head - Married - 33 - 1858 - Packing case maker - Hoxton, London
IFIELD, Emily - Wife - 31 - St Luke, London
IFIELD, Frederick W - Son - 12 - St Luke, London
IFIELD, Ernest J - Son - 10 - St Luke, London
IFIELD, Arthur J - Son - 8 - Clapton, London
IFIELD, Emily R M J - Dtr - 6 - Clapton, London
IFIELD, Bernard James - Son - 5 - Clapton, London
IFIELD, Henry E Son - 2 - Clapton, London

1881 RG11; Piece: 363; Folio: 4; Page: 2
15 King Street, City Road, St Luke, London
Frederick W Hyfield Head M 23 Case Maker Carpenter Middlesex Hoxton
Emily Wife M 20 Middlesex St Lukes
Frederick W 2 and Ernest J 1, both St Lukes

Marriage
18th November, 1877 St James Storeditch, Hackney, London
Frederick William Ifold 20 Bachelor Packing Case Maker 6 Gloucester Place
Father Frederick Ifold Baker
Emily Chamberlain 19 Spinster 6 Gloucester Place
Father George Chamberlain Engineer
Both bride and groom made their mark
as did the witnesses Samuel and Jane Church

1861 RG 9; Piece: 1060; Folio: 153; Page: 15
Holly Buck Hill, Wanstead, Essex
Richard Baxter Head M 61 Dealer in Poultry? Middlesex Spitalfields
Sarah Hyfold Servant M 33 " St Lukes
Fred'k W " Son 3 1/2 " Hoxton
James Howe/Stowe Servant Un 16 General Servant Essex Wanstead

1841 HO107; Piece: 396; Book: 5; Civil Parish: Steep; County: Hampshire; Enumeration District: 8; Folio: 6; Page: 6
Steep, Petersfield, Hampshire
All born in County
Richard Ifold 50 Ag Lab
Elizabeth 50
William 10

also in Steep, at Church Farm, not far away from those listed above
HO107; Piece: 396; Book: 5; Civil Parish: Steep; County: Hampshire; Enumeration District: 8; Folio: 3; Page: 1
All others born in County
Hari? & Hanna Hetherington, Farmer
/George Rickins 20 M.S.(not born in County), Wm Mullins 15 M.S. Ann Page 15 F.S. and
Henry Ifold 14

[dickiesam]

Thanks for the sorting out Mary...

Have a slight puzzlement....
Marriage: 18th December 1898 Poplar All Hallows, Tower Hamlets, London
Frederick Ifold 38 Widower Engine Fitter 57 Oban Street
Father Frederick William Ifold Architect

When Frederick married in 1877...
Frederick William Ifold 20 Bachelor Packing Case Maker 6 Gloucester Place
Father Frederick Ifold Baker

I suppose it would be possible to change from a carpenter to an engine fitter, but a baker to an architect? I have a feeling these are different people. Where is he in 1891?

[dickiesam]

Jane,
There's a part of this reference missing, either Piece or Folio....
1891 Ifield RG12/199 page 56
Haven't found a plain Frederick Wm [no surname] bn 1857 on a page 56 anywhere yet.

[dickiesam]

1891! Got 'im!

RG12 - Piece: 199 - Folio: 31 - Page: 56
Address: 169 Elderfield Road, Hackney, London
IFIELD, Frederick W - Head - Married - 33 - 1858 - Packing case maker - Hoxton, London
IFIELD, Emily - Wife - 31 - St Luke, London
IFIELD, Frederick W - Son - 12 - St Luke, London
IFIELD, Ernest J - Son - 10 - St Luke, London
IFIELD, Arthur J - Son - 8 - Clapton, London
IFIELD, Emily R M J - Dtr - 6 - Clapton, London
IFIELD, Bernard James - Son - 5 - Clapton, London
IFIELD, Henry E Son - 2 - Clapton, London

[dickiesam]

In 1901, the Ifield family are here:

RG13 - Piece: 218 - Folio: 88 - Page: 27
Address: 113 Elderfield Road, Hackney, London.
IFIELD, Frederick - 43 - Packing Case Maker - Hoxton, London
IFIELD, Emily - Wife - 42 - St Lukes, London.
With 6 of their children.

[janeb]

Thanks Mary and DS you have the correct family in the packing case maker
There is another Frederick Ifield who died in 1904 who was an artist married to Letitia so perhaps he is the one whose father was the architect?- nothing so illustrious in my family I fear.I have had some communication with another distant member of the Ifield family and she thinks William may have died soon after Frederick William was born in 1857 but we have no death certificate or burial evidence to support this.
As to Frederick William - after his wife Emily died in 1929 he remarried a Heather Penny in the same year. Having said that his death cert in 1933 has E Ifield as the informant and widow!

[MaryA]

For continuity, DS's finds have been incorporated into the timeline I posted above - although not 100% positive that all run on properly, as per the discrepancies in the marriages.

[dickiesam]

William Ifould [etc] deaths...

Deaths Jun 1857: Ifould, William - Bradfield - 2c - 212
[The district Bradfield spans the boundaries of the counties of Berkshire, Hampshire and Oxfordshire]
Deaths Mar 1863: IFOULD, William - Wokingham - 2c - 253
Deaths Mar 1899: Ifould, William - 68 - Wokingham - 2c - 272

Deaths Jun 1872: IFOLD, William - 15 - Islington - 1b - 199
Deaths Dec 1876: Ifold, William - 80 - Marylebone - 1a - 344

The first one fits with the family story that he died soon after Frederick was born but outside his area somewhat. Second one could be him but no age available. The 1899 fits with his age and he's near his place of birth.

[janeb]

Thank you again
Wokingham and Bradfield do not fit with the rest of the family tree (in fact I live not far from either of these place) and the ages of the deaths in London seem wrong. However many thanks and I shall keep looking! I shall see if I can find out about the details of these people without buying 4 death certs!

Jane

[janeb]

I have found the probate for William Ifold 1872 and William Ifould 1899 and both of these seemed to be too affluent for the family I am searching. However you never know.....