William James Wilson

[42lingfield]

William James Wilson lived at 88 Crown St Liverpool. I know he was with the Royal Engineers when he married in December 1915 In a postcard collection there are pictures showing men in a labour unit but there is no known connection with the family other than the fact that we have them.
By chance I found on Ancestry what I think is a medal card record for a WJW with the following numbers - Royal Engineers 111875, Lpl Regiment 101973 and Labour Corps 290585. Is there any way of telling if this is indeed WJW of 88 Crown St and if to start in the RE and end in a labour corps shows success or otherwise in a military career?
Any help from members would be most welcome.

[Bertieone]

Hi Peter,

Difficult without Service papers.

I wonder if there's any mileage in that the chap on the Medal card was sent to France, 23 8 15 and would have had to be back to marry at Christmas that year? Perhaps wounded? Wounded lists?

Did they have a child born before 1919? Fathers occupation on birth cert?

[Bertieone]

L.F.R.E. (T.T.) ?

[daggers]

Could be Lancashire Fortress RE, and TT as error for TF. I’ll look for more later in a list of local TF units.
D

[daggers]

I have looked at the Territorial units listed in the 1914 Directory and found:
Lancashire (Fortress) Royal Engineers, headquarters at Tramway Road, Toxteth Park.
The RE number shown on the Medal Card needs investigation: it is high and could be a result of the renumbering of the whole TF in 1917. I am not familiar with the RE allocation of numbers.
D

[Bertieone]

Excellent, Daggers, Well done.

[daggers]

Transfer to the Labour Corps often followed wounding, illness or other downgrade in medical fitness. It will be hard to prove anything without a service record or other evidence.
D

[MaryA]

Sometimes listed in the newspapers, I'll ask Katie if she will check her database.

[42lingfield]

Hello again Bert & Daggers, Thanks for the speedy replies. WJ & Winifred did not have any children that I know of; always possible of course that one has died. If the labour corps did accept injured soldiers it lessens the likelihood that this is my WJW as to my knowledge (which is very sparse) he was not injured. Having said that injury or illness would be unexpected new info.

Anyway, thanks for your endeavours; anything more you can find will be most wecome

Peter

[42lingfield]

Thanks Mary; anything Katie can find would be much appreciated. Peter

[daggers]

The Medal Roll for the British War and Victory Medals includes WJW as having served (with many others with similar numbers) in 30th Battalion KLR, but this unit is a mystery, as it does not seem to appear in the usual lists.
More digging will continue.
D

[42lingfield]

Daggers - Please dig as you have never dug before. We must find this man of mystery. I hope that he does prove to be my uncle W - Peter

[daggers]

30th Battalion, KLR: someone on the Great War Forum suggests that this battalion was formed after 11/11/1918, and this would account for its absence from the usual sources. If anyone can look at the Regimental history of KLR there may be some reference. There should be a copy, probably in two volumes, in the Central Library.
D

[Bertieone]

[daggers]

Well found, Bert. I have a bit more but need to get it in better shape before posting.
D

[daggers]

Can we know when WJW was born, and when he lived at Crown Street? Where was he in the 1911 census? In 1939? When did he die?

D

[Bertieone]

Can we know when WJW was born, and when he lived at Crown Street? Where was he in the 1911 census? In 1939? When did he die?

D

Previously,


https://www.lswlfhs.org.uk/phpBB3/viewt ... =2&t=15929

[daggers]

That is helpful, again, thanks Bert. I had forgotten that thread.
According to one old account of the Lancs Fortress Engineers, part of the unit was sent to Ireland early in the war, and that ties in with the info in the old thread.
A Great War Forum contact tells me that 30th Battalion KLR was also known as a Garrison Battalion, formed after the armistice. This ties in with Bert's extract from the King's history. The same informant suggests that some of the 30th Battalion had signed on after entitlement to demob, on special short term agreements.
The medal index card shown at the start of this thread includes a 1915 Star for WJW. The medal roll relating to this is separate from the BWM and Victory roll, and is headed 'Labour Corps', but the first column is headed 'REs'. No unit is entered for Wilson although others on the page have their former unit shown. Other details on the Roll agree with the Card, with his date of entry into France of 23 Aug 1915, but with the extra: 'disch. 23/7/19'.

My interpretation is that WJW was a territorial before the outbreak of war, was 'embodied' with his unit and went to Ireland. He then went to France (unit not known) and was at some stage transferred to the Labour Corps. He was later serving with that Garrison battalion of KLR. If we could find more about the Lancs Fortress Engineers it would help. All this is subject to having the correct William Wilson!
D

[Bertieone]

Whether it has any significance, having looked at 3 service records of Royal Engineers with numbers close to that of William Wilson, 111875, RE. (Medal Card)

111871,Pnr, Attested, 17 Aug, 1915, France, BEF, 22 8 15, Home, 3 1 17

111876, Pnr, Attested, 16 Aug, 1915, France, BEF, 22 8 15, Home, 13 2 16

111878, Pnr, Attested, 17 Aug, 1915, France, BEF, 22 8 15, Home, 8 9 16

The 3 above men were all from the South, is it likely, that batch of numbers are from a Southern recruitment drive ?

[42lingfield]

Daggers and Bert - thanks for keeping this on the boil. WJW's birth was registered Q4 1888 West Derby. The 1911 census for 88 Crown St shows him 'son - single - Male - 22 - merchants clerk - Liverpool. You make reference to Ireland. One of our postcards from WJW to his parents shows the Officers' quarters at the Military Barracks,Tipperary but it is undated. It says 'Just arrived here for the concert'.

Peter

PS I am reasonably sure that none of the family reached officer status.