Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

A framed brass memorial plaque to former members of this unit is displayed at Haig House, the RBL Club in Garston. 37 are named as 'former comrades who heroically surrendered their lives for their King and Country...'.
As is usual, it has been fairly straightforward to identify most of these casualties, the majority of whom served with the King's Regiment in various battalions, but others were in the Flying Corps or at sea.
Very little seems to be known about '5th Cadet Battalion' of the King's, and the RBL Club have no knowledge of the memorial's history.
If anyone can throw any light on the unit, which will not have gone to war but probably trained cadets before and perhaps during wartime, perhaps they could post information here. I shall be posting later a list of those whose service details have not been found.

Daggers

I look forward to hearing if anybody has any information about this little known Battalion, and indeed to helping if possible with any research to fill in the gaps.

Having read contributions elsewhere and viewed newspaper snippets. From the newspapers,

Major A E Harrison, Albert Edward mentioned, is that a definite? has Major Arthur Estcourt Harrison, Royal Artillary, been considered? Though I can't yet find a connection to Liverpool, perhaps one to keep on file.

Also mentioned, Newspapers, Liverpool Church Cadets and
Rev Daniel H C Bartlett,

Daniel Henry Charles Bartlett, Bn 1871, Bath, Somerset.
Vicar, St Silas, Toxteth Park, 1894-1900
St Nathaniel's, Windsor, Liverpool, 1901-18.

I'm not familiar with St Nathaniel's, was it a place that could facilitate a cadet force or perhaps a drill hall close by?

Thank you, Bert for comments. There seem to have been some church-related cadet units, mostly identified by the inclusion of 'Ch' in their title. I am not convinced that 5th Cadet Battalion KLR was one of those - yet!
St Nathaniel's was in Upper Parliament Street/ Crown Street and stood until demolished in 1993.There was a mission hall associated with it (see David Lewis's 'Churches of Liverpool', page 85) but no specific drill hall that I have found.
I have not thought about your Artillery officer as a likely link to the commanding officer named on the memorial, but will keep him in mind.

Daggers

Daggers,

Apologies if I'm repeating what's already known, unless I've missed it, the newspaper snippets don't actually mention the 5th cadets. They do have mention of Lieutenant Colonel J U Alder,
(James Urquhart Alder, Liverpool Dentist.) As a Major(Below)

5th Liverpool Cadets = 5th Battalion, Kings?

Bert
Thanks again. I think your last post held an extract from the London Gazette, from 1908 when the Territorial Force was created to replace the old Volunteers. That 5th Battalion was an adult TF unit (based at St Anne Street) and went to war in 1914 along with the other local TF battalions of the King's.

I am revisiting a similar query I had last year on the Great War Forum, so will regroup and come back with more details.

D

Daggers,

I assumed, wrongly, if J U Alder was serving with the 5th Battalion, the 5th Cadets were perhaps attached and came under his wing as a serving officer with the 5th. However this wasn't the case.

Army and Navy Gazette, 27 May 1911.

Daily Post 13 April, 1917,

A couple of names mentioned on active service, W J Blundell, George Williams, names also on the memorial, also, Major A E Harrison

Memorial, Plevin N, Norman Plevin, 3401, Kings, John Plevin, appointed sidesman, Father?

Could the memorials be from St Nathanial's and removed when demolished?

Harry Collins, appointed sideman, possible father of, Collins P R.

Percy Collins, 3934, 331 Upper Parliament St.
Attestation, 2 years, Liverpool Cadets.

Full name, Percy Reynolds Collins, Father, Thomas Henry Collins.

Interesting cutting! The description of the church as 'West Derby' is confusing as it was known elsewhere as in the Windsor neighbourhood, but that is newspapers for you.
I shall digest those interesting names.
My feeling so far is that the memorials were more likely to have been at a Territorial HQ, later closed, than in a church, but I am ruling nothing out.
D

daggers wrote: My feeling so far is that the memorials were more likely to have been at a Territorial HQ, later closed, than in a church, but I am ruling nothing out.
D

Very likely as St Nathaniel's had their own memorial and not all cadet names are on it.

Have you accounted for them all or is there still some with missing info?

I am fairly confident that I have identified about 30 of the 40 names, but so far have nothing on the following:
Brown, C
Patterson, H
Smith, E
Ward, C traced
Ward, J traced
White, A traced
Wilson, A. traced
amended to save unneeded research.

I have spent most of the afternoon combing the local papers for more about Cadet battlions and am starting to think that they may have been formed from groups within the Gordon Working Lads Institute and Florence Institute before receiving official recognition. Many of the 30 I am happy with were from the Toxteth/Liverpool 8 area, covering the Windsor district. There was some confusion as to what was a Church-related unit in some of the reports I found.

I am now awaiting a reply from the Reserve Forces Association, in case they hold any relevant records.

EDit to add:
I have just checked the IWM listing of names on the St Nathaniel's memorial which is stored at St Bride's and a dozen of those on the Garston 'Cadet' memorial are also on St Nathaniel's. More work needed but I can't explore this week.
Daggers

Charles Ward, 307822, 8th Battalion, Kings. Solders Effects, Father, John.
John Ward, 339365, RAMC. Soldiers Effects, Mother, Annie S

Brothers,

1901 census
John Ward
Annie S Ward
Charles
John
Parish, St Nathaniel's
RG13 P3496 F123 P5

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... h=21689132

A White, http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casua ... ,%20ALBERT

Thanks for the Ward brothers and White. I'll add them in tomorrow, with Wilson, who I have just found.
D

When Katie returns from WDYTYA ask her if any of them might be in her database of wounded, or dead collated from the newspapers.

Thanks, Mary. I had not realised that the show was this week.
D

For the file?

Running H Patterson through the mangle I came across this snippet, 1916



Looking further, an easily mistake made on the name Patterson, seaching the address and sisters names, the chap is Henry Edward Pattison, 2730, 10th battalion, KLR, death, 4th or 9th August 1916.

His father is Anthony Gregson Pattison, various addresses for him and the family are, Earle Rd, Tagus St? and Alderson Rd.

Daggers,
Would these addresses fall under the area of interest.

On the Liverpool Presbytery Roll of Honour, Earle Rd, Edge Hill.

Henry Patterson, with a note, Died between 1 Dec, 1915 & 1 Dec 1916

Bert
Patterson/Pattison:
I have followed your working and agree that both the Echo and the memorial are in error about the surname. The service record for Henry in Ancestry lists his many sisters and two of their names tally with the Echo notice. Alderson Road is a good fit, geographically, as well.
Great sleuthing!
Daggers

Bert
What do you think about this for Brown, C.?

a possible, from CWGC:
BROWN, CHARLES, Rank: Private, Service No: 358908, Date of Death: 30/06/1917, Age: 26
Regiment/Service: The King's (Liverpool Regiment), 2nd/10th Bn.
Grave Reference: IV. A. 3., Cemetery: ESTAIRES COMMUNAL CEMETERY AND EXTENSION
Additional Information: Son of the late Charles H. and Margaret Brown, of Liverpool; husband of the late Mary Brown.

In 1901 this family was in Kirkdale. In 1911 he was living with an aunt and family, including a brother and two sisters, at Litherland. Ages right in both.
Death notice in Daily Post 10 July 1917 inserted by his sisters and only brother, 93 Esmond Street.
The Daily Post on 10/7/17 had a notice 'deeply mourned by his sisters and only brother'.

Daggers