My Fathers world war 2 medal record.

[gf27]

Some help please.
Just received my Late Fathers navy medal record and it raises a few questions that I hope the forum can help me with.
On the top left hand corner of the record it has PAID stamped by hand and about an inch from that it has, in a circle, stamped PRIZE underlined and the letter U below that. What could that mean?
On the list of medals it includes 1939-45 medal, Atlantic, Pacific ticked with an R over it, Burma, defence and war medal. Someone has told me, rightly or wrongly That you cant have the Burma and the defence medal at the same time. what do you think?
Finally the original of these medals are long lost. Can I get replacements?

Thankful for any help. Gareth.

[Bertieone]

Link explains who's entitled,

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-camp ... navigation

Original medals are on sale all the time, there's also repro medals available.
Example,
http://dorchesters.com/reproduction-min ... rld-war-ii

http://www.awardmedals.com/ww2-medals-c ... 7_112.html

[retiringtype]

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_money regarding prize money

[Bertieone]

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_money regarding prize money

Could the "U" be U-Boat?

[gf27]

Thanks Bert and RT for the very helpful links. Bert, U boat could be right for the following reasons. My late Sister and my Mum, She's 90, shared this tale with me. The events took place when and on what ship they couldn't say.
My Dads ship spotted an incoming torpedo and my Dad was supposed to ring a warning bell to get the crew to move to the opposite side of the ship where the torpedo was expected to hit. My Dad didn't do this and he and his gun crew trained their guns on the incoming and destroyed it. The ship then attacked the U boat and disabled it. My Dad was pulling one of the sub mariners on-board his ship and whilst doing this the enemy sailor spat in his face. Naturally my Dad took exception to this and threw him back overboard. I believe that he got a bit of a telling off for his actions. So yes the U boat could have been the ships PRIZE. Sorry to have gone on a bit.
Out of interest I have attached the record to see what ship he might have been on at the time.







Thank you. Gareth.

[MaryA]

How interesting!

[retiringtype]

In terms of his wartime service, all those postings look to be either shore establishments or depot ships. So not much help in tracking down the war story.

[gf27]

RT
Please clarify. So all those medals are not as it seames. And my family folk law is a pack of lies. Disappointed

Thank you. Gareth F

[retiringtype]

AB's would be parented to shore establishments and depot ships for pay purposes but loaned out to vessels. "Rother" appears in brackets against several of the postings and also on the medal card. See this about HMS Rother http://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/90.html

[gf27]

Good morning Retiringtype.
Have run through the U boat story again with my Mum and she insists that the detail is correct, well its what my Dad had told her. Strange that my sister gave me the same tale shortly before her death. Different people different times. Oh well, I bow to your superior knowledge RT and put it down to my Fathers odd memories, best way I can put it.
One last question, what would the prize have been for?

Baffled. Gareth F

[retiringtype]

I didn't say the story wasn't true, only that it is difficult to track it down because we don't know what ships he was attached to.

I did do a bit of research on the feasibility of destroying an incoming torpedo with gunfire and didn't find any records of it happening.

Running through the list:

Ganges was the Royal Naval Training Establishment at Shotley in Suffolk
Pembroke was the name given to a shore barracks at Chatham
Edinburgh Castle was the depot ship in Freetown harbour, Sierra Leone . See http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/veteranstales26a.htm
Leonidas was the RN base at Takoradi on the Gold Coast
Can't read the next one but he was attached to Rother. HMS Rother was a River-class Frigate so that's one ship we know he served on
Eaglet - and Rother again. Eaglet was the Liverpool HQ of the C-in-C Western Approaches so he was probably engaged in convoy protection in the Atlantic.
Lanka - Rother yet again. HMS Lanka was the RN shore establishnent in Colombo, Ceylon

That takes us to the end of the war.

It would be worth doing some more research on HMS Rother and whether she was involved in the capture or sinking of an enemy submarine.

[daggers]

One of the wartime captains of the frigate HMS Rother was a much-decorated R.V.E. Case, prewar a merchant navy officer, who I am pretty sure was a Liverpool man. Tracing anything about his career might be fruitful.

D

[gf27]

Thanks Retiringtype and daggers.
RT that was a lot of effort on your part on my behalf. Again my Mother insists the story was true. She did volunteer that my Dad probably spiced things up a bit. I did look into the shooting of incoming torpedo's and like you found no evidence of it ever happening. Thinking about it, unless the torpedo was virtually on the surface, the water would have taken the sting out of the shells My Dad was involved on the anti aircraft guns. Have seen a picture of him with the guns. One thing I do remember he was in a white kit (uniform)
When I applied for my Dads records I said that he had been involved in the atom bomb testing in the Pacific, Christmas Island ??? I think.
Alfred died in 1989 of multiple cancers. My late Sister thought it my have come about by his exposure to radiation.
So he would have been serving into the fifties, but there is no record of this on the information pack that I received. Man of mystery my old man.
D will look into that info you sent me. RT thanks again to all the effort you have put in. By the way HMS Rother did destroy a submarine in 1943 its recorded on the link you sent me, But there were no survivors.
Thank you. Gareth F.

[retiringtype]

I see he joined the Royal Fleet Reserve in 1948 so he could well have been recalled to service in the 1950's.

[daggers]

I can't help with the medal question or the shooting of a torpedo, but found some interesting material on "h m s queen emma" via Google, using that search term. There is a short history, probably contributed by a Dutch researcher, of the ship's use by the Royal Navy in WW2 including conversion from a Dutch cross-channel ferry into a landing ship, with service in several major war incidents including the Dieppe Raid and D-Day. In 1945 she went to the Far East, and on another site - found with BBC in its heading - a member of the ship's company described his experiences with one named photo [or possibly more].

D

[gf27]

Many Thanks to Bert, RT and D.
I now have loads to go on. Thanks to your help I now know how to replace the medals, understand his medal card and his record of ships and land based activities etc. There is just one ship which is unreadable, spent ages staring at it.
Gave R.V.E. Case a good looking at. He's been through a lot of action, but like a lot of these type of records no individual names are mentioned of the lower ranks. The names of the ships are always mentioned. Yes looks like a Liverpool lad to me.
Going back to navel search to see if they hold records for my Dads fifties exploit's. He did enrol for the R.F.R in 1948. Funny that was the year I was born, must have wanted to get back on board to get some sleep
Just before we put this one to bed, I was looking through some notes I had made during conversations I had with my late Sister re the torpedo incident.
She said at the time "it was a flying torpedo" he had shot at.
Yes I know it gets sillier.
Thanks. Gareth F.

[retiringtype]

"it was a flying torpedo"

That makes more sense. When I was researching Rother etc I came across some references to attacks by German anti-ship guided missiles

Could have been the Hs293 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_Hs_293

EDIT - mentioned here in connection with Rother http://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/90.html

[gf27]

RT must give you a gold star for perseverance.
I nearly didn't put that last bit about the flying torpedo's. I thought the story far fetched as it was. Thank you for those links, wow what terrible bits of kit those bombs were, never heard of them. When you said that makes more sense, I thought you were pulling my leg. Anyway those things were pretty fast but if they were coming strait at you maybe half a chance with AA fire.
So to recap, Alfred's tale seemed too long winded to hold no credence at all, but you know what its like with hand me down tales. Maybe my Dad did shoot one of those Henschel glider bombs down, I would like to think so. Perhaps best left there for the time being.

Thanks mate. Gareth F