Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello I'm trying to establish if the above is my nan's first husband. I've found a marriage in the 3rd quarter of 1918 and I think she said she was only married for a few months before he died in WW1.

I've found this on Ancestry:

Name: John Brown
Birth Place: Liverpool
Residence: Liverpool
Death Date: 8 Oct 1918
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: Liverpool
Rank: Private
Regiment: The King's (Liverpool) Regiment
Battalion: 13th Battalion
Regimental Number: 96752
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre;

I've found him on the Commonwealth War Graves site but it doesn't give any details of next of kin.

Last night I bought the medals roll download from the NA but that doesn't give any next of kin either only the names of 2 medals.

I've looked at that Forces website which do seem to have records, but I've not heard very good reports about it, so I'm a bit wary to go there and part with money for maybe old rope.

Any advice would be helpful please.

Soldiers Effects,
Legatee, Widow, Elizabeth.

Was Elizabeth your Nan's name?

Bertieone wrote:Soldiers Effects,
Legatee, Widow, Elizabeth.

Was Elizabeth your Nan's name?

Yes it was thank you very much Bertie, Elizabeth nee Banks.

She was only 20 and married and widowed within a few months.

Would I be able to find out any other information about John Brown?

I've just found this on the FMP newspaper archives, of course I have no way of knowing if this is the right man but the date of death is correct but John Brown is a very common name, however in saying that there aren't that many born in Liverpool c 1898 to be found on the censuses. I've found him as a 13 year old scholar in the 1911 census living as a nephew/boarder with Mr and Mrs Parr.

It looks like his service records didn't survive, Medal Card, Medal Roll, Soldiers Effects and SDGW are all that's on Anc.

Bertieone wrote:It looks like his service records didn't survive, Medal Card, Medal Roll, Soldiers Effects and SDGW are all that's on Anc.

Thanks for your help Bertie, I'll have a look for the above later, must get ready for work.

King's Liverpool Regiment
Brown
96752
John
Private
Liverpool 8th October 1918
Killed
Son of Mrs. Hesketh, of 79, Enid Street, Liverpool.
date of Obituary 25/10/1918-Liverpool Echo

Liverpool Echo 25th-Oct-1918

BROWN, -October 8, killed in action, aged 20 Private John Brown, the dearly beloved son of Mrs. Hesketh, 79, Enid Street. (late steward Empress of Britain)

BROWN-October 8, killed in action, aged 20 years, Private John Brown, K.L.R L.G* team, the dearly beloved nephew of Mrs. Parr, of 4, Clarence Street.

*L.G-Lewis Gunner.

If your young scholar is the one living with Mr & Mrs Parr then it would seem that you now have the right connection.

Just to let you know that your local library should have Ancestry available for you to use free of charge and they seem to have the majority of military records, especially Medal Cards, so if there is one available on the National Archives site then it should be there on Ancestry.

1911, 17 Copperas Hill, liverpool
George Parr 67
Ann Parr 57
George Diecolff 45
John Brown 13 Nephew

RG14 P22152

There was a baptism at St. Peters in 1898


Name:
John Brown

Birth Date:
27 Mar 1898
Baptism Date:
10 Apr 1898
Liverpool, St Peter
Father's name:
John Brown
Father's profession-Bootmaker
Mother's name:
Elizabeth Brown

His parents married in June qtr 1897

John Brown
Elizabeth Riley
Liverpool 8b 51

Elizabeth Brown remarries 22nd June 1911 at St. Peters a William Hesketh.

1911 census 79, Enid Street, Toxteth Park.

Elizabeth Brown-Head-Widow-34-Born Birkenhead
William Hesketh-Boarder-Unm-29-Carter-Born Edge Hill

Bertieone wrote:

This is getting really weird!!!

William Brown, bootmaker of 159 Brownlow Hill is my 3 x great grandfather and yes he had a daughter called Ann.

Most of this side of my family lived around the Edge Hill area and I also have John Brown (his grandson) marrying a Margaret Elizabeth Hesketh in 1905.......I thought that Hesketh name seemed familiar so I went looking at my tree.

** updated to add as it looks a bit confusing with my nan marrying a Brown. Her mother's maiden name was also Brown **

I didn't realise that the medal rolls were on Anc MaryA or I would have got them from there for free (I have a 6 month subscription) rather than paying £3.30 for a bit of paper...........

Katie wrote:Liverpool Echo 25th-Oct-1918

BROWN, -October 8, killed in action, aged 20 Private John Brown, the dearly beloved son of Mrs. Hesketh, 79, Enid Street. (late steward Empress of Britain)

BROWN-October 8, killed in action, aged 20 years, Private John Brown, K.L.R L.G* team, the dearly beloved nephew of Mrs. Parr, of 4, Clarence Street.

*L.G-Lewis Gunner.

So these 2 obituaries are for the same man right? One by his mother, the other by his aunt?

Yes they are the same man.

George Parr's previous marriage was to Dora Obrian, 1869 Liverpool.
Catholic Marriage,
Georgium Parr, Doram Obrane.

1871
Tobin St
RG10 P3781 F117 Page19.

George Parr 27
Dora Parr 27
Ann Brown 22 Lodger

Son of George & Dora,

William George Parr, Bn 1873, Royal Engineers, 339706

Married, Jane Brown, St Ambrose, 1900
Fathers, George Parr, Joseph Brown

MaryA wrote:If your young scholar is the one living with Mr & Mrs Parr then it would seem that you now have the right connection.

Just to let you know that your local library should have Ancestry available for you to use free of charge and they seem to have the majority of military records, especially Medal Cards, so if there is one available on the National Archives site then it should be there on Ancestry.

I didn't know they were at the time Mary, I was just going by the newspaper clipping but it looks like I'm on track.

Funny thing is that I found notes this weekend on this man John Brown, when I was having a clear out to get my FH stuff up to date, throwing out old letters and printouts from 1995 and the like and doing FILING!!

I had to look up what Vital Records Index meant as I had so MANY pages of printouts. It's been a long time since I delved deeper and attempted to smash down so many of my brick walls, so thank you all for your help, it's much appreciated and sorry if I spam here sometimes. But I do find when I type questions out (sometimes) I seem to find the answer for myself.

I haven't found the connection so far but wonder did my nan marry her first cousin? Is she not mentioned because it wasn't the done thing?

I really don't want to have to buy the marriage certificate if necessary as they were only married a few months and had no children, and of course he might have the same street address on the marriage certificate as so often happens.