Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Does anyone know how long service records were kept open if a soldier was presumed dead. I recently found that an ancester who was thought to have died at Gallipoli actually married after the war.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I will move this post over to the Military Board and hope that somebody with more knowledge than me will respond, however, generally speaking the Service Records should have recorded something like this and he should have claimed his Pension.

There may also have been some mention in the local newspapers that he had been recovered, if you would give his name and dates of birth/expected death, we have a forum member who may be good enough to check a database of entries that she has of newspaper items.

Paula Jones wrote:Does anyone know how long service records were kept open if a soldier was presumed dead. I recently found that an ancester who was thought to have died at Gallipoli actually married after the war.

Your Soldier ancestor will have appeared in a Casualty list published in the Times newspaper as being Killed when in fact he may have been taken POW, so a search of the British Red Cross records will confirm this. I have many examples of Soldiers reported as being killed, but later appeared in the German POW lists released to the British Government. I will give you an example of how the Casualty lists worked.

Lancashire Fusiliers
Welding
5417
Samuel
Private
St. Helens
Missing, believed killed
27th-May-1916 Liverpool Courier

Lancashire Fusiliers
Welding
5417
Samuel
Private
St. Helens
Previously officially reported missing, now unofficially reported Prisoner of war
15th-Jul-1916
Liverpool Courier

Lancashire Fusiliers
Welding
5417
Samuel
Private
St. Helens
Released Prisoner of war from Germany, now arrived in England
1st-Jan-1919

Private Samuel Welding was reported as missing presumed Killed in a War Office List which was published in the Liverpool Courier 27th-May 1916, he was then reported in a further list published on 15th July 1916 as unofficially being a Prisoner of war. His final entry published 1st Jan 1919 shows him as being released and having arrived back in England.

Also I have soldiers who were reported missing in 1914 and not being officially declared dead until after the war ended. So a soldiers record would remain open I would think.

Also I have a case of one soldier who was reported Killed when in fact he had deserted. He was tried and sentenced to death, later reprieved and giving hard labour. (see below)

Cheshire Regiment
Fagan
26666
Arthur
Private
Liverpool
Killed
Survived
18th August 1916
Liverpool Courier

Cheshire Regiment
Fagan
26666
Arthur
Private
Liverpool
Previously reported killed, now reported serving with unit
15th December 1916
Liverpool Courier

Arthur's records are on Ancestry.

http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... 30&t=13947

Also the above link will take you to the topic on how Death Certificates will have been issued.

John Daly was born 25th January 1887 and baptised in St Oswald's 30th January 1887. He joined the Loyal North Lancs reg in 1914. I have accessed these records on the ancestry site but there is a notation next to his baptism record about his marriage in 1949 his reg number was 12561 and he was listed as missing in August 1915

Paula Jones wrote:John Daly was born 25th January 1887 and baptised in St Oswald's 30th January 1887. He joined the Loyal North Lancs reg in 1914. I have accessed these records on the ancestry site but there is a notation next to his baptism record about his marriage in 1949 his reg number was 12561 and he was listed as missing in August 1915

The John Daly/Daley Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 12561 was Killed in action on or about 9th August 1915.

He is on CWGC
JOHN DALEY
Rank:Private
Service No:12561
Date of Death:
09/08/1915
Regiment/Service:The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
6th Bn.
Panel Reference:Panel 152 to 154.Memorial:HELLES MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Annie Daley and Brother of Catherine Church

He also appears in a Casualty list as missing in action published 20th September 1915 in The Liverpool Courier.

Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Daley
12561
John
Private
Liverpool
9th August 1915
Missing
20th-Sept-1915
Liverpool Courier

Thank you Katie

I am beginning to think the army records might belong to a different man. Although his mum was Ann (nee Butler) and he had a sister called Catherine (I can find no marriage record) all the cousins had the same names. Did your records show a name for the father? I will order a copy of the marriage certificate from the details on the baptism record. The same thing happened in my family, officially my name is Margaret but I am known by my second name.

Paula

The notations were usually in latin, have you managed to decipher which church the marriage took place in? If you need any help reading it you could scan it and upload to here so that we could help if we can, instructions to upload http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =16&t=9817

John Daly father was called Joseph Daly. I established this by looking for a marriage of a Catherine Daly to someone called Church. In 1906 Catherine Daly married William John Church at St. Joseph's and her father is recorded as Joseph Daly.

Thank you again. The John Daly I was looking for had a father called James.

Paula