Hi.
I'm afraid I cannt offer any help with your query, Cath, but I was intrigued to see how much information Promenade had about your relatives.
I am trying to find out anything I can about my grandfather's military history. His name was Robert Maddox and he was killed in France on 11 April 1918 when a troop train he was on was blown up. His number was 56672, he was a private in the King's Liverpool Regiment, 4th battalion and he is buried at Chocques Military Cemetery. I have been struggling to find his enlistment date but Daggers tells me that a colleague of his (it might even be you, Promenade!) has done some research and thinks, given the regiment number, that he probably emlisted in November 1916.
Don't know if you can offer any more information, Promenade.
Just thought it might be worth asking.
Regards,
Glen Webb
Private Robert Maddox
Re: Private Robert Maddox
Glen,
It was not me who Daggers approached. However this is my cut on the enlistment (or more precisely the mobilisation or call-up) date, a bit long winded but bear with me.
In July 1915 the National Registration Act was introduced as the numbers of recruits had begun to significantly reduce. All men and women between the ages of 15 and 65 had to register to comply with the Act. They had to give their occupation and their ability to work – they were then issued with a registration card. This gave the Govt an idea as to how many potential recruits there were.
Lord Derby was appointed Director-General of Recruiting in October 1915 and set about introducing a new system of volunteering – this became known as the Derby Scheme.
Men were allowed to attest immediately but the majority chose to attest on the understanding that they would return for duty if they were called up to enlist. Uptake was slow – that is until the War Office announced the introduction of conscription at which point recruiting offices were packed with men now eager to sign up for the Derby Scheme. Conscription started on 2/3/16. This meant that every male resident of England, Scotland and Wales (Ireland was excluded) between the ages of 18 and 41 and unmarried or a widower was liable be called up. In May 1916 the act was extended to include married men. Conscripts had no say over the unit they would serve with (this is one of many possible reasons why a scouser could serve with the Glosters or indeed a man from Gloucestershire with the Liverpool Regt – however they could volunteer for the Navy – the Senior Service had primacy over the destination of new recruits. There were many conscription tribunals conferred over the country as people appealed that they were exempt from call up – there were also many rejections!
My grandfather enlisted in Liverpool on 2/3/16 and was posted to the Reserve – at the time he was working as a dock labourer (note the date – last day of the Derby Scheme!) . He was not called up for service until 3/7/17 when he was posted to the 7th Kings (Liverpool) Regt.
Taking a look at the papers of men who were allocated numbers in the same range as Pte Maddox it looks as though Clarke and Tunstall were conscripted and that Hodge was probably a Derby Scheme man. So without his papers all that can be said about your grandfather is that he attested on an unknown date prior to November 1916 when he was called up for service - it is not possible to identify him as a conscript or as a Derby Scheme man.
The following is a clip from my database, of men where I have an 'enlistment' date, which suggests that Pte Maddox was called up 6-7/11/16. The anomalous enlistment dates are probably attestation dates - the clerks were not always consistent!
Hope this clarifies your grandfather's enlistment.
Promenade
It was not me who Daggers approached. However this is my cut on the enlistment (or more precisely the mobilisation or call-up) date, a bit long winded but bear with me.
In July 1915 the National Registration Act was introduced as the numbers of recruits had begun to significantly reduce. All men and women between the ages of 15 and 65 had to register to comply with the Act. They had to give their occupation and their ability to work – they were then issued with a registration card. This gave the Govt an idea as to how many potential recruits there were.
Lord Derby was appointed Director-General of Recruiting in October 1915 and set about introducing a new system of volunteering – this became known as the Derby Scheme.
Men were allowed to attest immediately but the majority chose to attest on the understanding that they would return for duty if they were called up to enlist. Uptake was slow – that is until the War Office announced the introduction of conscription at which point recruiting offices were packed with men now eager to sign up for the Derby Scheme. Conscription started on 2/3/16. This meant that every male resident of England, Scotland and Wales (Ireland was excluded) between the ages of 18 and 41 and unmarried or a widower was liable be called up. In May 1916 the act was extended to include married men. Conscripts had no say over the unit they would serve with (this is one of many possible reasons why a scouser could serve with the Glosters or indeed a man from Gloucestershire with the Liverpool Regt – however they could volunteer for the Navy – the Senior Service had primacy over the destination of new recruits. There were many conscription tribunals conferred over the country as people appealed that they were exempt from call up – there were also many rejections!
My grandfather enlisted in Liverpool on 2/3/16 and was posted to the Reserve – at the time he was working as a dock labourer (note the date – last day of the Derby Scheme!) . He was not called up for service until 3/7/17 when he was posted to the 7th Kings (Liverpool) Regt.
Taking a look at the papers of men who were allocated numbers in the same range as Pte Maddox it looks as though Clarke and Tunstall were conscripted and that Hodge was probably a Derby Scheme man. So without his papers all that can be said about your grandfather is that he attested on an unknown date prior to November 1916 when he was called up for service - it is not possible to identify him as a conscript or as a Derby Scheme man.
The following is a clip from my database, of men where I have an 'enlistment' date, which suggests that Pte Maddox was called up 6-7/11/16. The anomalous enlistment dates are probably attestation dates - the clerks were not always consistent!
Hope this clarifies your grandfather's enlistment.
Promenade
Re: Private Robert Maddox
Promenade - many thanks for your detailed response. I feel I have learnt a lot over the last couple of weeks and certainly know more about my grandfather's likely service record.
I have just realised that I have previously read comments you have made on the Great War Forum about the 1918 train explosion. It seems to have been an issue that has generated interest quite a lot in the past so perhaps I'll have to accept that I've found out all I'm going to about this event.
Today I have found service records for my grandfather's brother, Charles Edward Maddox.
He enlisted in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment on 4/07/1915 (Rgt No. 20545) and was discharged due to sickness on 10/08/1916. I have 2 questions:
1. On Ancestry, the papers I have looked at are called "Short Service Attestation". What does this mean?
2. His Silver Badge War Record states that he had not served overseas so what would he have been doing for the 12 months he was in the army?
Thanks again.
Glen
I have just realised that I have previously read comments you have made on the Great War Forum about the 1918 train explosion. It seems to have been an issue that has generated interest quite a lot in the past so perhaps I'll have to accept that I've found out all I'm going to about this event.
Today I have found service records for my grandfather's brother, Charles Edward Maddox.
He enlisted in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment on 4/07/1915 (Rgt No. 20545) and was discharged due to sickness on 10/08/1916. I have 2 questions:
1. On Ancestry, the papers I have looked at are called "Short Service Attestation". What does this mean?
2. His Silver Badge War Record states that he had not served overseas so what would he have been doing for the 12 months he was in the army?
Thanks again.
Glen