Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello Everyone

Re:- William Henry Hartley Reg: no T4 / 043713 Regiment Name: ASC
Joined on 14th January 1915, on Short Service Enlistment.


Please can you help?


Did my great granddad die in WW1 or did he survive and disappear from the family?


Thanks to Bert I could discount the William H Hartley who died on Salisbury plain part of the Canadian regiment

I finally found some records when I tried his last known address on the military records file search {I am a novice didn’t realise I could do that}

I found William Henry Hartley’s Draft, Service and Enlistments partial records
Plus his WW1 medal index card.


My great grandfather was William Henry Hartley age 28, & 10 months
Address 55 Creswick Street, Liverpool

Next of Kin Florence Hartley nee Drury

2 children,

William Alfred Hartley,
Robert Henry Hartley, {my granddad}


When I looked for a war grave I could not find one with the above regiment number and I could not find a pension record either.

Am I just hopeless at looking?


I was brought up with “William Henry Hartley died in the war”, was this lies?

I found William Henry Hartley’s Draft, Service and Enlistments partial records

Page 233699 to and including last page is 233715


Wm Hy Hartley Driver ASC


William Henry Hartley Reg: no T4 / 043713 Regiment Name: ASC

On page 233704

This is a Casualty active service form

It says
Embarked. SS Maiden. Southampton 18/3/18
Disembarked. Harve 19/3/16
4th Army aux. H.T. Coy
344 Coy S.S.C.

This page show admittance to hospital, Discharge, Posting to B.H.T.D
Award forfeit, leave and other bits I don’t understand. E.g. A.W.O


Page 233705
Looks like, please correct me if I am wrong.

17/5/19 Concentration Camps Place, Cologne 17/5/19 for Demobilisation

Then stamp further down page Transferred to Class Z

Woolwich Dockyard & home address
Other writing on side I can’t read
Page 233711

There is a letter enquiring where William Henry Hartley is, his wife did not know the regiment but addressed his letters to Driver W.H. Hartley 216, company army service, Grantham.

It stated her husband had been in hospital 11 weeks with a fever, but was not discharged from the army.
There is no more letter, there are no other significant records that I can see.


Can anyone explain what the records mean please?

Where else do I need to search to find out if he died or was discharged as I said I can’t find a war grave.

Thank you for taking the time to look at this I do appreciate it.

Kind regards

Marie Rowan

Hi Marie,

It doesn't appear William died during Military service and no results show when checking the usual sites for a soldiers demise. It appears all was well on his demob and didn't qualify for a pension. Link, Anc, http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... e&h=879939

excellent sites that will answer a lot of your questions

http://www.1914-1918.net/demobilisation.htm

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forum ... opic=76197

Hello Karen & Bert

Thank you so much for answering my email.

Karen

I was suprised he did not die in the war. He was not around when my grandfather was growing up, may be he did a bunk so I Need to find out what he did next. The mystery thickens.

Bert

Thank you so much for the links. I have enjoyed these and understand much better. I am going to share them with my mum who is very interested in her grandfather's history and the war.

I am going to seek to find out much more as this WW1 history is so interesting.

My William H Hartley looks a bit naughty to me having lost his good conduct medal, I think he went AWOL early in the war, but he did go back eventually..

I only had a very basic overview of our two past wars. From what they shared in the TA, {and family stories}

I used to be a member of 208 General Hospital, Childwall valley Road, Liverpool. I loved the Royal Army medical corp motto, translated it was "faithful in adversity" This has been useful to remember.

I now see I have so much more to learn about those who gave their lives for our country. We owe a great debt, lest we forget.

Thank you

Kind regards

Marie

Hi,
If you are certain that your William is one of these births....
Births Mar 1887: Hartley, William Henry - Toxteth Park 8b 251
Births Jun 1887: Hartley, William Henry - W. Derby 8b 556

A search of the GRO Death Index from 1919 up to 1987 produced relatively few hits.

Death: WILLIAM H HARTLEY
District: HENDON - Jun qtr - 1936
Year Of Birth: 1887
Volume: 3A; Page: 423

Death: WILLIAM H HARTLEY
LIVERPOOL SOUTH - Dec qtr - 1946
Year Of Birth: 1887 [age = 59]
Volume: 10D; Page:482

There is an 1887 Sheffield birth which could rule out this one....
Death: WILLIAM H HARTLEY
SHEFFIELD - Dec qtr - 1957
Age: 70
Year Of Birth: 1887
Volume: 2D; Page: 256

Death: WILLIAM H HARTLEY
District: STOKE ON TRENT - June qtr - 1966
Year Of Birth: 1887 [age = 79]
Volume: 9B; Page: 516

This one can be set aside because of the DoB...
Death: WILLIAM HENRY HARTLEY
District: LEEDS - Sep qtr - 1969
DoB: 24 - 10 - 1887
Volume: 2C; Page: 773

While age at death given by the informant can be out by a couple of years I think the 1946 Liverpool death is promising, although it would be difficult to be sure he is your man.

Hello DickieSam

Thank you for your research I will try and see if there is probate record too, hopefully I will get the wife;s name. and narrow down,

You are right the 1946 one does look promising, The Toxteth one too, although most of the family stayed in Everton, Liverpool which comes under West Derby. I will try and get the certificate after a look at probate.

Thank you so much I missed them in my search on ancestry. I will update you when I have tracted him down.

Kind regards

Marie

Hello Everyone.

I am just updating you all.

We established my great grandfather did not die in the war as the family thought.
I ordered his death certificate with the forum help and also from Dickiesam It arrived this afternoon.

He died on 28th November 1946 age 59 years.

He was still with his widow Florence Ada Hartley nee Drury.

This was a suprise because my aunt was 9 years old when he died and she can not remember him but could remember Florences brother Arthur Drury, and her other grandfather Richard Hornby.

Thank you to every one who helped you are all brilliant and I really appreciated your imput and I enjoy watching you work with other so interesting so a huge thank you.

I enclose the death certificate for your interest.

Kind regards

Marie

Marie Rowan

http://s63.photobucket.com/user/marie13 ... 6.jpg.html

Well done, what a good find. I wonder if maybe he had been ill and perhaps in hospital for a long while so maybe his child doesn't remember him being at home?

Hi Marie,
Good outcome and family lore laid to rest.