Discussion about Merseyside Roll of Honour

[daggers]

http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk/ - as noted on the Websites Board.

Huge amounts of information about memorials and lists of names, and still a work in progress.
However, it still refers to the "Garston Civic Memorial". I have looked for any such memorial and addressed emails to the site's operators without reply. The is a cenotaph at the end of Long Lane (which bears no names), a memorial in the parish church (St Michael), and others in clubs etc, but what is this "Civic"?
Can anyone help?
Daggers

[Bertieone]

I've always thought of a Civic Memorial belonging to and for the Town or City, separate from Religious, Works and Club memorials, etc,.

I don't know Garston very well, is the link, the Garston Civic Memorial?

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/garst ... y/Margaret

[daggers]

Bert
Yes that is it, at the end of Long Lane. Buglers of the King's Regiment are visible on that old newsreel.
I have walked round the memorial - no names!
D

[Bertieone]

Thanks Daggers,

No names indeed, the memorial is dedicated to the named.

http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/server/show/co ... wmSearch/1

[promenade]

Daggers,

It is a little known fact that I submitted a database over over 44,000 names of men commemorated on the war memorials in the Merseyside area to this site. Although I compiled the database the real hard work was by two amazing gentlemen Major David Evans of the Liverpool Scottish (now sadly no longer with us) and George Donnison who lives on the Wirral who took photos and documented hundreds of memorials - their work was carried out over many years and it is amazing how may of these memorials have been lost. I take my hat off to these gentlemen and find it sad that their contribution to the MROH site has such a low profile - but that is another story.

I have checked the master database and it is likely that the source of the list was from the work of David and George however they list the source as Garston Roll of Honour, Garston War Memorial, Garston - unfortunately the original paperwork that I have is in store in the UK.

Joe

[daggers]

Joe
Thanks for that. I know that the MROH fails to acknowledge its sources. Pending your return I will attempt a visit to Garston Parish Church, as I now have a suspicion that the wall plaque there may match the so-called Civic Roll. I will report back.
D

[42aitch]

Hi Joe and Daggers

If you look at http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk/about.htm you will find that Major David Evans and George Donnison as well as yourself, Joe, are acknowledged for the work that has been done to enable the site to be set up.

I have been helping with the project but did not set up the website, but I do know that this work could not have gone ahead without the wonderful work that they have done and for which we should all be eternally grateful.

Eileen

[daggers]

I intended no aspersions to any of those who have slogged around registering details of many hundreds of memorials or who put details into the public arena.
My problem has been with tracing this so-called Garston Civic Memorial, about which the Merseyside Roll of Honour compilers will not answer my request for a source or explanation.
I shall be quiet for a while but hope to get the answer eventually!
D

[promenade]

Eileen,

If you read my email carefully I did not say that there was no acknowledgement I pointed out that David and George's contribution has such a low profile for people who really, in my opinion, underpinned this site. I passed a list of those who I insisted should be acknowledged, one of whom was missed off. There is a bigger story than this but here and now is not the place to go into it just let's move forward. I for one learned a lot of lessons!

Joe

[Katie]

If I could just make a comment on this subject. I was originally a part of this project having spent from 2005 to 2010 compiling Newspaper indexes of soldiers published in the local Liverpool Papers and Prescot Reporter. I also made a note of War Memorials and when they were unveiled etc etc. When the idea was first talked about researching local war memorials and compiling a individual biography of soldiers killed using my indexes (I called it Project 2014) I even indexed the Month of August 1916 Liverpool Echo Obituaries and 6 months of the Liverpool Evening Express which I gave over to the site. Promenade with the approval of others donated the 44,000 names recorded on memorials from the Merseyside and Lancashire Area. Owing to matters which I will not discuss here, I withdrew from the project, I asked the owner of the website on numerous occasions to Acknowledge were the 44,000 names came from as I was getting pulled up in the Record office over it. This Project has only been made possible by the hard work and dedication of others over many years (not 2 years which the Project has been running for) as my newspaper indexes are being used to carry out this project as these indexes are held by the owner of the website.

So if Promenade had not donated the 44,000 names and I had kept hold of my indexes which has the dates of all the articles for the soldiers there would not have been a Merseysiderollofhonour.

I have certainly learnt my lesson.

[daggers]

I can now add a little more on this subject.

On 23 March I received an email from 'admin [at] merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk', not named, explaining that an assumption had been made that the Garston Cenotaph had names inscribed, but this is not so. Admin added that the UK National Inventory of War Memorials lists a memorial indexed as 'Men of Garston'. Their database, online, refers to a typescript roll of honour 'which was discovered in the archives at Liverpool Record Office'. Searching the LRO online catalogue reveals nothing of the sort, by entering Garston, roll of honour, or anything relevant.

I have compared the 540 or so names in this 'Civic memorial' list with those of the following churches or institutions:
St Michael's Church, Garston [CofE]
St Anne's Church, Aigburth [CofE]
St Francis's Church, Garston [RC]
Banks Road Methodist
Island Road Methodist
'LMS' Railway [which I believe should be listed as LNW Railway as it precedes the formation of LMS in 1923]
Wilsons Bobbin works
Garston Docks
All Hallows Church, Allerton [CofE]

A rapid cross-referencing shows that of the 540 names on the 'Civic' list, all but 27 or so come from these other lists. It is not possible to be accurate, as initials and spellings sometimes vary.

I know that before the turn of the Millenium a Mr Sidney Lindsay of Aigburth [sadly now deceased] had compiled lists of names from St Michael's and St Anne's memorials and I had some correspondence with him. It seems likely that he deposited a copy of his list at the Record Office, and somehow this has been reported to the National Inventory as a memorial in its own right.

I have written to the National Inventory to ask if they have any more about this listing which does not show on their online database. I will of course report progress, if any.

Views on this theory would be welcomed.

Daggers

[PS If anyone is surprised that I have posted this , I WAS due to have had a knee replacement today, but was turned away as I suffered a very minor leg injury a few days ago and the risk of infection was too serious. I am now at the back of the queue again!]

To use email address change the [at] to @ - MA

[MaryA]

We will look forward to any updates that come your way. Sorry to hear about the injury, hope your wait isn't too long.