Service Records records death but still alive?

[simone]

Hi everyone

Could someone check this out for me please, I'm cross eyed now

Patrick Gallagher n c 1876/77 married Mary Crane in 1895... Had a whole bunch of children up to 1917... ok with that

Found Pension records for Patrick on Anc when he was discharged in 1918, states his wife is Mary and lists some of his children.. all good so far


Patrick Gallagher
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Age at enlistment: 42
Document Year: 1918
Regimental Number: 364537
Regiment Name: Labour Corps
Number of images: 8


Found a service record


Patrick Gallagher Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Age at enlistment: 19
Birth Parish: Liverpool
Birth County: Lancashire
Document Year: 1894
Regimental Number: 4347 -This has been amended on first page to 4647
Regiment Name: Liverpool Regt
Number of images: 10

this record states he was home in 1895 which is good because it's the year he married Mary, although realise he may not have actually been 'at home', but at least not serving abroad.

Both records have a description of Patrick mentioning a tattoo on his arm and scar on his head.

What is puzzling is image 21470 states he died of Pneumonia in 1900, which he clearly didn't becuase he is on the census in 1901 and 1911 and the discharge is from 1918.

1901 Patrick Gallager
Class: RG13; Piece: 3498; Folio: 7; Page: 5

1911
Patrick Gallagher
RG14; Piece: 22551

We don't have site of marriage as yet to confirm his father is also Patrick as it states on the service record...

What do you make of the death details... could it be an adminsitrative error, recorded on wrong record

I know the Pension record is right because it names wife and lists children we know about.

Could there really be 2 Patrick Gallagher's with a tattoo and scar on head born about same time in Liverpool?

Thanks

Simone

[Tina]

Hi Simmo
There is another Patrick born Bootle, father John.
Married to Elizabeth by 1901.
Not him either who died 1900

[simone]

Cheers Tina

It's a puzzle isn't it.. I know the pension record is right, because of the children and wife...

The service record has the same description albeit a difference in height of 1 inch, 5ft 5 1/2" on the discharge and 5ft 6 1/2" on the service record, but the half inch is there!!

both say blue eyes, brown hair....

I'm just updating my previous post because noticed something else about the numbers.. Hoping one of the Military crew on here can explain..

Hope you are keeping well Tina

Simone x

[MaryA]

Does the actual page that gives his death details, actually state his name on the same page?

I have sometimes trawled through a soldier's papers and wondered if a sheet from somebody else has been mixed in by mistake, either in the file or in the photographing.

[simone]

Yes it does Mary Patrick Gallagher 4647...

The last entry says 'Died of Pneumonia at 24th British Field Hospital Ingagane?'

Maybe it is coincidental that they both looked the same....... perhaps the officers filling in the info put the same description for everyone

[simone]

Have a look at these

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59 ... 373344.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59 ... 675779.jpg

[simone]

this may be better to see


this one from discharge in 1918



these from service records 1894

[simone]

4647 follows through on paperwork, the only anomaly being that the Attestation page has it changed from 4347 to 4647..

The place of joining on the Statement of Service is Warrington, and this is stated on sickness Record too.. However Attestation states place as Liverpool. Having said that, all the dates follow through from 27/9/94, the Attestation has this date, the sickness record, the Statement of Service.

The only rogue thing is this death recorded for 1900

Simone x

[daggers]

A small point: the regimental depot of the King's Liverpool Regiment was at Warrington for several years. This may be one factor in the confusion.
D

[simone]

Thanks Daggers
the more I read the description, the more I think they are same person, and the death must be wrong but Ingagane where he supposedly died is South Africa where this chap served

Simone x

[dickiesam]

Found only 5 Patrick Gallaghers bn abt 1875 +/- 2 years, in the Militia and Chelsea records. All enlisted in the Wigan, St Helens, Warrington and Liverpool areas.
Only one had tattoos noted. His # 6079, Liverpool Regiment, enlisted in St Helens in June 1898.

1) Heart surround with dagger inside on L forearm.
2) Mermaid outside left forearm.
3) Cross flags, crown and shield on R forearm.

Scars..
1) Small scar over R eyebrow.
2) Small scar on L cheek.
3) Scars on side of head, neck and shoulders.

But this lad was discharged with ignominy [now there's a word I haven't used/heard for a very long time!] in September 1898 following a District Court Martial when he was sentenced to 112 days prison time on a charge of "Irregular enlistment".

I haven't yet found the PG with # 4647 who enlisted in Warrington September 1894. But! Found something very odd... the description of tattoos and scars etc that Simone posted seems to be a copy of a Militia enlistment for a PG. The description almost identical. But they aren't the same person from the colour of hair, eyes and height.

This is Patrick Gallagher, enlisted in Liverpool Regt, 1/09/1893, #2833.


I think there's a fairly strong possibility that your man is actually 2 men and one died in SA.

[simone]

Thanks Brian.. so it looks like all Patrick Gallaghers looked pretty similar with near enough same tattoo's and scars
In this research game you think brilliant a description of how they looked! and then find they were all described the same way I suppose there were only so many ways they could record the descriptions..

And yes that is a big word... not sure I've ever used it.

Thanks for taking the time to do the research you did as Tina would say.. you're a mate

btw what does P.M.B mean.. (bet it's something dead obvious)

Simone x

[dickiesam]

btw what does P.M.B mean.. (bet it's something dead obvious)

I wondered about that... Thought it might be P & B tattooed inside the heart?

And:

And yes that is a big word... not sure I've ever used it.

'Ignominy' was usually the last thing a serving soldier wanted to see on his record!