Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello and greetings from Gloucestershire,
As part of my work for the Royal Glouc. Hussars Regtl. research committee I am looking for any info on "Lieut R Graham Anderson R. Glos. Hussars Yeoy." and having found your post via google, I wondered how a native of Cirencester, Glos. got listed up in your neck of the woods? As a very important link in our WW1 history, we are searching for his 'War Diary', any info would be greatfuly recieved..........
WOII Larry Birkin

Larry
Welcome to the forum.
I have researched a few lists of names on memorials and know how hard it can be to complete the task.
I have found a few names which have no apparent link to a parish or a district, but in some cases there has been a grandparent, uncle/aunt or even an in-law who has asked for the name to be included on a memorial.
I see that the CWGC entry is of no assistance, and Lt Anderson's name is not on the Liverpool Town Hall Roll of Honour [which is in any case far from complete].
Have you found any family details about him and his parents? It might be worth writing to the vicar of St Mary's, asking him/her to pass the enquiry on to a local historian - this has worked for me on occasion.
I hope you find the answer.
Daggers

Hi Larry and welcome to the forum.

I'm sorry I don't have any more information than what I listed above, I was simply passing at a time when the church was open and in this day and age is not often unless there is a service on.

Anyway I roamed around and generally took in the surroundings, imagining the time when my ancestors would have married in there and noticed the Memorial.

We have some diligent researchers of military men on our forum and I hoped the details might have been useful to one of them - I hadn't expected an enquiry from so far afield, that's wonderful.

I hope somebody might have enough knowledge of maneovres to be able to give you an answer, however I believe some of our crew might endeavour to look into his ancestry to see if his family have links with Knowsley/Liverpool.

I have discovered that the church is open each Wednesday afternoon with helpers on hand, although they didn't seem to know very much about the memorial when I was there, and also during the Heritage week in a couple of months time there will be days when it will be open to the public, also hopefully with guides on hand.

The church has a website http://www.knowsleychurch.co.uk/page6.html and I also wonder if the Knowsley History Society would know anything about it, however they don't seem to list a website with the Lancashire Local History Federation Member Societies, but there is an address and email contact http://www.lancashirehistory.org/membersoci.htm

I'm a great believer in telephoning, especially if it's local and so I just rang one of the Church Wardens who concurred with my thinking that if you were to drop an email to the Knowsley History Society Chairman (address on that link above) then she may know a local historian who might have some background into the way the names were collected for the memorial - worth a try anyway.

PS Church currently has a vacancy for the vicar so that line of thought went by the wayside.

Many thanks to you both and I will follow up on your advise.
I have traced the family to many areas but nothing north of Stratford.
The Regiment have been looking for Lt. Andersons war diary for over 30 years! Last known to have been returned to his father in 1922 after the writing of the Regiments WW1 adventures at Gallipoli and Palestine. His parents died in the 1950s and he had several sisters but no brothers. I have found no conection with Liverpool or anywhere in South West Lancs.
It's quite a way for a visit but I can assure you that there will be a strong contingent of Gloucestershire Hussars atteding the next Remembrance Parade, so high the regard for this young officer and what he achieved within his short lifetime. Author, poet and musician, he wrote the Regimental Anthem, [during the Gallipoli campaign], that was played at the dedication of the Memorial on Collage Green, Gloucester Cathedral 1922. This too has been 'misslaid'............

Anyone interested in the details of my research, PM your e-mail address and I will send the pdf..

TTFN Larry

I have a article for Lt R. G. Anderson which was published in the Prescot Reporter in 1916. I will look it up which may explain what his connection is with St Mary's, Knowsley is.

I'm quite amazed that such a distinguished man appears to be commemorated in a relatively unknown place, at least to those who are expected to know something about him.

Thanks Katie, I hope your article gives some information I'll look forward to reading the details.

Do it tomorrow. Glad to help.

His father, R G Anderson, applied for his late son's 1915 Star after the war (presumably in 1920/1921), giving his address as "Knowsley, Prescot, Lancs."

So the Knowsley connection might be with the father, not the son. Perhaps the father was Lord Derby's Land Agent?

Looking forward to Katy's article !!

Stephen
I thought the mention of Prescot would draw you out! Katie's cutting should be enlightening.
D

For anybody who doesn't have the details, I have found this entry on Ancestry.

Name: Robert Graham Anderson
Death Date: 12 Nov 1917
Rank: Lieutenant
Regiment: Household Cavalry and Cavalry of the Line (incl. Yeomanry and Imperial Camel Corps)
Battalion: Gloucestershire Yeomanry
Type of Casualty: Killed in action

He was the Son of Robert and Mary Anderson, of Cirencester, Glos. and is commemorated/buried in the Gaza War Cemetery Reference XXVI. D. 3. He was 27 years old so born approximately 1890.

There appears to be very little on Ancestry, no Service Records unless anybody has better luck finding them than me.

I can't say if this chap is related, but thought it worth posting anyway.....

The Times, Thursday 15th September 1921

“To The Editor Of The Times”

A letter on the cost of agricultural farming and land from
“Robert ANDERSON, Knowsley, Prescot”

The Times, Tuesday 25th June 1925

“Today the Lord Mayor of Liverpool will welcome the members of the Surveyors Institution, headed by the President, Mr John D Wallis……and members of the Lands Agents Society…..

Papers will be read on the Liverpool Corporation Estate (Mr A D Jenkins), Arterial Roads and Housing (Mr S A Kelly) and Agriculture in the Liverpool District (Mr Robert Anderson).

A dinner will be given in the evening and tomorrow visits will be paid to housing areas, Knowsley Hall, Smithills Hall and other places.”

Mary

Officer service papers are not available on Ancestry, you have to go to Kew to see them.

Here you go. Spot on Steve


The Prescot Reporter 18th August 1916


Lieut R. G. Anderson

Lieut R. G. Anderson of the Royal Gloucestershire Hussars is in hospital at Suez with a wound in the shoulder. He is the only son of Mr. Robert Anderson, Lord Derby's principal agent, who lives in Knowsley.

A Search on Google for Robert Anderson produced a number of references in the Lancashire Record Office archive of the Knowsley Estate (Earls of Derby), so you seem to be on the right lines. Some are too early in date but JA is mentioned as a new member of a drainage committee in 1912.
D

Too late with the above, but well done, Katie and Stephen.

Larry
You might be able to get more by contacting the present day estate manager at Knowsley Hall, Prescot, Merseyside, L34 4AG | Telephone: 0151 489 4827 |
E-mail: info@knowsley.com

D

Katie

I made a guess, given that his father's occupation in the 1911 census is Land Agent.



Thanks for the details from The Reporter.

I wish you luck with any approaches to Knowsley Hall, I believe others haven't had very much success requesting access to documentation.

Yes indeed Robert Anderson was a Land Agent and Surveyor, having struggled to find the entry on Ancestry rather than either of the other two sites, I feel I am able to quote from the 1911 census (courtesy of the National Archives) that his father Robert was 52 years old, born Cirencester and his mother Mary Elizabeth was 50, born Plumstead, Norfolk, they had been married 24 years and had only the one child.

Robert Graham was 20 and single, and was a pupil at a Land Agency, born Cirencester. The family were living in a 14 roomed house called The Barton and were well off enough to have servants - a Cook, a House parlour maid and a Sewing maid.

Wow, what an energetic and resourceful lot you all are. I’m slightly overwhelmed!
First off may I thank you all for such a wonderful response to my original enquiry? But now I must make an apology for an error in my previous post; it’s some time since I last worked on this project and my memory is not quite what it was. You are quite right MaryA he was an only child, my error was that he had many cousins, his male cousins also became casualties during the Great War and the ladies tended to marry gentlemen of the cloth. Mostly in the Bristol and Bath area but one in Warwickshire. Lt. A, like his father, was a Land Agent and employed pre-war by the Bathurst Estate, Cirencester. “The Barton“ is also an Estate property. [The Bathurst family have commanded the Regiment several times in its two hundred years existence. Maj. The Hon. Alexander is second in command today]. Needless to say, I will endeavour to use such allies to pry open the records of Knowsley Hall. What’s the point of having friends in high places if they can’t put a foot in the odd manor door? And if that doesn’t work, I’m an estate manager myself so I can always try the back door!!
As for daggers and Stephen, [well I’m on to a pair of old sweats here me thinks], thanks for the input and may I call on you for “local assistance” ? You have found Robert quite quickly, any details like address, date/place of death….Can’t find anything concrete in Cirencester area, family grave stops at Grandfather. Any info will be passed direct to chairman for action…….

Katie, I’m all ears……………………

Thanks again boys and girls, you have kick-started an old quest and the horses are being saddled once more………Hussar!

Larry

Maybe's


Mary Anderson Birth Date: abt 1860
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1939
Age at Death: 79
Registration district:
Cirencester
Inferred County:
Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 1081


Robert Anderson Birth Date: abt 1859
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1939
Age at Death: 80
Registration district Cirencester
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 546

was hoping to find them under Prescot reg district but only possibles are wrong age wise

1940 dec q
Mary E Anderson age 67
8b 1161

1937 sep q
Robert age 73
8b 583



Simone x

Thanks Simone,

Having had a 'kick-start' I've got back on the trail and, having looked again, I agree with your findings. Also, with updated records on Ancestry, I've found their Probate records. Now they lead a merry dance but interestingly the solicetors listed are a cousin-in-law. The firm are still in Cirencester and one member of the practice is a retired RGH officer. Would still be interested in any details of Roberts possition at Knowsley!

thanks once more for your assistance,
Larry

Larry
For the career and background to Robert A and his role at Knowsley, land agents nowadays are qualified by exam and have probably studied at the Royal Ag. College, Cirencester. They may be able to tell you more. Perhaps the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors might help.
As to 'old sweat', not a bad guess - National Service then TA - Gunners. The TA element included a few drill orders within Knowsley Park, but long ago and well out of sight of the Hall!
[The then Lord Derby raised the four Pals Battalions of the King's Liverpool Regiment in 1914 and some of their early training was within the estate.]

Good hunting.
Daggers