Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

My maternal gt grandmothers brother at 7 years old was on the 1851 census a drummer boy in the Royal Artillery stationed at Woolwich.....I have found reference on A...Y which states he was a trumpet major then states Medals Returned in Campaigns prior to 1880...has anyone any idea what this means.
My gt grandfather and his 4 sons were soldiers ..the sons being musicians.

This is out of area I know so I hope its ok to ask

Ann

Ann
A trumpet major was a senior non-commissioned officer, probably holding the rank of sergeant, and would be in charge of an artillery unit's trumpeters [NOT buglers in the RA!]. He would teach them the many calls, from reveille to last post, by way of many others, as this was the equivalent of a modern PA or tannoy system in barracks or walkie talkie in the field.

Can you post the exact wording of what was said about the medals, and on which form it was entered. This might help. After WW1, when campaign medals were being issued, some had to be returned for amendment because they had been impressed with wrong details [name, rank, number etc], but I do not know about earlier campaigns. Some soldiers or their families returned their medals for reasons known only to them.
Daggers

Hi... It gives his number I assume it means reg no.as 2959 and medals returned in campaigns prior to 1880 and thats it ...its a typed sheet of several names ...thats all I have unfortunately.

Thank you Ann

Ann
Sorry, but I have no knowledge of army records etc for that period. I hope there is someone else who can help.
D

Hi Ann,
Can you post your maternal gt.grandmother's brother's name and I check the Chelsea pensioners records for him. I assume he was born abt 1844, but where?

DS

Hi Daggers Thank for your help ... I now know alittle about trumpet majors....who are not Buglers

DS....I do have my 2xgt grandfathers James Maine c 1805 papers from National Archives and very interesting reading they are but I was never able to find anything in NA about his sons...

Albert Vincent Maine c1832 born within the army in Dysentigney Ireland
William George Maine c 1837 born Woolwich Barracks
James Maine c 1840 Woolwich Barracks
Francis Falgate Maine c 1842 Woolwich Barracks

On the 1851 census all are musicians of some sort apart from Francis who is a scholar. I do also have the family on future census's as my interest is Mary Ann who was my gt grandmother.

Thank you Ann

Hello Ann,
None of the sons of James Maine, all of whom served with the Royal Artillery, appear in the Chelsea Pension Records. These records are not just about the veterans known as the Chelsea Pensioners. The Chelsea hospital was responsible for pension payments to all servicemen who completed the period of service they enlisted for.

Puzzled by their absence I checked with the RA records site and found this memo from the NA. Note the final sentence...
The Royal Artillery Manning and Records Department, Imphal Barracks, York, YO1 4HD only has other ranks recent records (maximum seven years old). After seven years have elapsed the records are sent to the Ministry of Defence, Departmental Record Office CS(R)2a, Bourne Avenue, Hayes, Middlesex UB3 1RF, United Kingdom.
So anything pre-1900 that is not with The National Archives is apparently missing.

DS

Hi DS...Like you I did a search on NA and came up with nothing...However the first son Vincent Albert married Rhoda George in 1857 but then in 1866 she married again ((I have marriage certs)) So I have searched for a death cert for Vincent but found none...If he died whilst in RA maybe abroad do you think there would be a record of his death. Already checked FBMD

Thanks so much for your help Ann

If he died whilst in RA maybe abroad do you think there would be a record of his death.

Hi Ann,
I can't find him in a later census so I assume Rhoda said she was a widow when she married again in 1866. Albert Vincent's [or Vincent Albert's] death isn't coming up in military deaths, overseas or otherwise, or civil deaths either. Even tried Ma* without success.

The thought strikes me he may have 'done a runner'. Because he would have been a deserter from the Army he would have to change his name and the more I think about it the more I like the possibility. If Rhoda thought he had gone for good she would have to say she was a widow.

DS

Whoooo.Whoooo....I never thought of that but it would not surprise me given some of the stuff I have found. If its true then it just adds to the ups and downs of this army family...but I suppose we never really know do we As a taster Rhoda's second marriage was to my gt grandfather Thomas Nicholas 1866... 1871 census they are in Co Durham but by 1881 Rhoda has moved in with a John Hall and Thomas has returned to Pembroke.... Mary Ann Maine ((my gt grandmother)) Albert Vincents sister is also in Pembroke with 2 children surname Nicholas and married but a visitor on the 1881 census ....then when Rhoda dies in 1886 Thomas and Mary Ann marry she a spinster and he a widow

Thanks for your help DS

Ann

So as not to confuse things I have another post on Bishop /Mcanaspie??((Albert Vincents mother)) The plot thickens

Hi Ann,
So my 'done a runner' thought could be a goer? Having read Rhoda's tale then Albert doing a runner wouldn't surprise me. Did he find out that Rhoda's son Francis H, born 3 years before his marriage, wasn't his after all? Hmmm!

And..

So as not to confuse things I have another post on Bishop /Mcanaspie??((Albert Vincents mother)) The plot thickens

Indeed the plot does thicken... Mcanaspie?
James McAnaspie was the man who threw an axe [not a spanner] into the works and lopped 4 generations off my tree! He became the g.g.father I didn't want. I was quite happy with my previous g.g.father [Robert Emery] until I discovered Robbie wasn't the biological father of my maternal g.father Tommy Emery. Sometime between 1891 and his marriage in 1898 Tommy had discarded the McAnaspie name and adopted as his 'father' the father of his 3 older siblings! He stuck with the 'adopted' father the rest of his life through 3 marriages and named his second son Robert. There's nowt as queer as folk....

Mind you I too might have disowned James McA when I discovered he had died in 1890 from complications due to advanced syphilis!

DS