Robert Ireland Kings Regiment

Post by **Roymontrose** » 26 Aug 2010 19:37

Hi,

I wonder can anyone help me with a query on some information I'm looking for re: Kings Regiment Liverpool 9th Battalion. (Maybe Ken Lees can help me?).

My Grt Uncle Robert Ireland born 1896, fell on 20th September 1917 at Ypres. He was with the 9th Battalion Kings regiment. His army No. was 332824. Robert has been commemorated at the Commonwealth War Grave at Tyne Cot and I have the information for this from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website.

I've also been able to get some information on him from '1837 on line' and a cutting from the Liverpool Evening Express dated 8th November 1917 kindly sent to me by Kathy.

How can I get his Army record and any other information on his death?

I have been given a box containing his war medals and among them was a large brass badge with the words ''Church Lads Brigade Liverpool'' on it. I've spent some time on the internet trying to see if there is a link between the Church Lads Brigade and the Kings. There is some reference to the Church Lad's being cadets, is this coincidence or is there a link?

Any information would be greatly appreciated,

Roy Montrose

Post by **dickiesam** » 26 Aug 2010 22:47

Hi Roy,
With a little luck you might find Robert's service records on Ancestry here:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1219

You'll need some luck because quite a few records were destroyed during the WW2 Blitz on London.

Dickiesam

Post by **daggers** » 26 Aug 2010 23:50

Roy
I have not heard of any special link between the King's Regiment and the CLB. There was a battalion of the London Regiment (TF) with a definite link. If you look for the Great War Forum [free to join] and use the search button and enter Church Lads Brigade I'm sure you will find a thread or two about THAT link.
Ken is indeed the man for 9th King's info...
D

Post by **MaryA** » 27 Aug 2010 10:14

Medal card if that helps

Post by **MaryA** » 27 Aug 2010 10:20

Name: Robert Ireland
Birth Place: Liverpool
Residence: Liverpool
Death Date: 22 Sep 1917
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Liverpool
Rank: Private
Regiment: King's (Liverpool Regiment)
Battalion: 9th Battalion
Number: 332824
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

Post by **MaryA** » 27 Aug 2010 10:25

There doesn't appear to be any service records available for a Robert Ireland of or born in Liverpool on Ancestry, sorry.

Post by **Roymontrose** » 28 Aug 2010 14:50

Hi All,

thank you for your reply's and suggestions. I already had Robert's Medal card thanks Mary, it was his record I thought I may be able to get but your right, I haven't been able to get it from Ancestry either. Is there anywhere else I might be able to try or do you think it's been destroyed?

regards and thanks

Roy

Post by **conijoni** » 28 Aug 2010 15:29

I am a former member of the Church Lads Brigade and collect CLB badges and medals. I am intrigued by the large brass badge 'Church Lads Brigade Liverpool' as I was not aware of its existence. I would appreciate seeing a scan/picture of the badge. Any chance, Roy? conijoni

Post by **conijoni** » 28 Aug 2010 15:37

Should have said...the Church Lads Brigade was founded in 1891. In 1911, their companies began to seek recognition as Cadets, and from 1913 companies began wearing khaki service dress. From 1917 to 1930 the CLB Cadets were affiliated to the Kings Royal Rifle Corps. Not all CLB companies sought recognition as Cadets. In a battalion of 24 companies maybe 20 would have been recognised. The CLB made up the largest component of the Cadet Force. At one time, out of 165 Cadet battalions, 114 were CLB Cadet battalions. There was no link to the Kings but I'm sure many CLB lads found themselves in their ranks.

Post by **conijoni** » 28 Aug 2010 15:46

Not many are aware of this...but the Boys Brigade also allowed their companies to seek recognition as Cadets, and many of them did. From 1917 onwards BB companies affiliated and by 1921 over 40% of the membership, 27,000 boys, were BB Cadets, some of them in khaki. Each efficient unit got a £5 grant from the government. In 1923, the grant was withdrawn and the BB left the Cadet Force.

Post by **Hilary** » 28 Aug 2010 16:13

Ancestry in conjunction with the National Archives filmed all the existing Army Records for people discharged by the early 1920s. These were what were known as the burnt and unburnt records. they have also filmed Pension records. I'm afraid that if the person doesn't appear in them on Ancestry the records were one of the majority that were destroyed during the 2nd World War.

The war diary for the battalion would tell you what was going on when your relative was killed. There are copies at the Maritime Archives at the Maritime Museum (only open Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday)

Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **Roymontrose** » 30 Aug 2010 15:26

Hi All,

Yes Conijoni, I'll get a photograph taken of the badge and post it as soon as I can, and thanks for the info.

Thanks Hilary for the info ref the Maritime Museum, It'll be a couple of weeks before I can get down there (off on holiday on Friday!) but will investigate when I return. I agree with you that it looks as though Robert's Army Records have been destroyed, never mind.

I'm in the process of cleaning his medals, having new ribbons fitted and mounting them.

Regards to all,

Roy

Post by **Hilary** » 30 Aug 2010 17:14

I'd ring them first and check the diaries are still there.

Have a good holiday

Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **Ken Lees** » 31 Aug 2010 15:32

Roy,

I have only just seen your original post, so please accept my apologies for the delayed response.

According to my records his service records are not amongst those which have survived. I believe he went to France in 1917.

Robert Ireland, according to my records, was killed on 22nd September, not the 20th.

Robert was one of 40 men of the Battalion to be killed that day, the third day of the battle. Over 50 had been killed in the previous two days. Over 50% of the Battalion were either killed wounded or missing in 3 days fighting.

All of those killed are commemorated on my website - http://www.9thkings.co.uk

I have a detailed account of the actions of 20th-22nd September (The Battle of the Menin Road), from the Battalion History, which I can e-mail to you. If you contact me via my website I will send you what information I have.

I would be very interested to read the information contained in the newspaper report you mention.

Ken

Post by **Roymontrose** » 01 Sep 2010 10:06

Hi All,

Ken, I've sent the newspaper cutting for Robert Ireland to your 9th Kings website e.mail address.

Conijoni I've sent you a P.M

Regards,

Roy Montrose

Post by **Ken Lees** » 02 Sep 2010 22:19

Roy,

Thank you for the cutting. It is much appreciated. I will e-mail the details from the Battalion History, as promised.

Ken

Post by **Roymontrose** » 16 Sep 2010 19:57

Hi All,

Just to draw a line under the Robert Ireland Query, I believe I've now got all the information that's in the public domain. I've polished up his medals, bought new ribbons for them, I'm now in the process of purchasing a 'Kings' cap badge and I'll then mount them all in a frame along with his photograph

Such a pity his record card is not available

Once again thanks to everyone who helped with this query.

Going to do William Carlton Montrose's next, also Kings Regiment (oh no, not the Montrose's again)!!!

regards,

Roy Montrose

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