Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

In the latest Liverpool Family Historian on pages 166 and 167 there is a mention of Irish migrants in Liverpool, "many thousands, unable to find more money for the passage after having spent, lost or had it stolen from them, remained and suffered the misery of the Liverpool slums as thousands before and after had also done".

Given the large number of Irish people who settled in Liverpool over a long period of time surely this is a myth presumably based on a small number of cases that were given publicity at the time? In reality Liverpool was a place where Irish people chose to settle because of the availability of work and the support of the Liverpool Irish community.

The figures of Irish-born people in Liverpool in the 19th Century show that pre-famine Liverpool already had a large Irish community. In 1841 there were 49, 639 Irish-born people in Liverpool making up 17.3% of the population. Liverpool was not only a middle place for emigrants it was a final destination for English, Scots, Welsh, Irish, Manx and people from abroad who wanted to live here.


Blue

How do other people cover Irish migration to Liverpool and the famine era in their family history records?

This is the background of my Brady ancestors who came to Liverpool in the 1840s:-

"The Brady family left County Cavan, Ireland in the 1840s. They were part of a massive movement of people leaving Ireland who headed for Liverpool, England. Liverpool was "the nearest place that wasn't Ireland" where Irish people could travel to find work. Its shipping also provided passage for Irish emigrants going to North America.

Irish people first started coming to Liverpool in large numbers after the turmoil of the rebellion of 1798. A great influx of Irish people of all classes and religions occurred in Liverpool in 1798. It marked the beginning of a regular flow of Irish migrants that would transform Liverpool's population, culture and even the local accent.

Liverpool became a "diaspora place" for the Irish it was one of a number of destinations where Irish people settled in large numbers. Liverpool had a well established Irish community by the 1840s with most Irish men employed as dock labourers. One notable Irishman, Michael James Whitty, was appointed as Liverpool Police's first head constable in 1836.

The Brady family arrived in Liverpool at a time when Liverpool's Irish-born population reached its peak due to the famines in Ireland of the 1840s. Population statistics taken from census records tell us that 22.3% of Liverpool's residents were Irish-born in 1851."


Blue

Hi Blue,
RE:

many thousands, unable to find more money for the passage after having spent, lost or had it stolen from them, remained and suffered the misery of the Liverpool slums as thousands before and after had also done".

I believe that statement to be an exaggeration that has descended into myth. Certainly, as in all ports of departure for the 'colonies', there were those who preyed on the illiterate, often ignorant-of-the-ways-of-the-'outside'-world, humble folk who were hoping for a better life across the sea. However many of the 'victims' who were forced to remain in Liverpool had the resources of their Irish compatriots to support them until they found their feet.

I have 2 Irish lines who settled in Liverpool. One of them crossed the Irish Sea in the 1840s to look for work. The father and his 3 sons were slaters and plasterers and they had settled in Liverpool by 1843. By 1861 they were 'working on own account'. The other line, of whom I have more information, left Dublin in 1874, taking his family to Liverpool. He and 2 sons were coopers and went for work opportunity. By 1881 they had set up a 'family' coopering business.

I know both families provided a temporary 'landing ground' for family members, brothers, sisters and cousins etc, who followed in their footsteps. Work is what they left Ireland for as well as 'better' living conditions. The latter, which to us would be classed as slum conditions, were a damned sight better than what they had left behind.

I would agree with you, I believe in many cases Liverpool was the aim for many leaving Ireland, it may not have been the land of milk and honey but was the nearest place that was better than their famine ravaged homeland.

In my own family I believe they came twice, staying only a few years the first time, having a few children but then returning to Ireland on the death of a grandparent who wanted to die "at home", coming back again when the children were old enough to work.

This must have been more successful as the girls did find work but the boys earned enough to enable them to emigrate to USA with at least the fare and a little extra in their pocket.

I've only found a few family members who went on to live in America. Mary Brady daughter of John Brady of County Cavan married a Monaghan man in Liverpool called Patrick McShane. The family moved to Chicago in about 1890. Mary died of TB in Chicago in 1904.

My Great Grandfather's two sisters both went to Chicago in the 1900s. One died young there in 1919. Everyone else lived in Liverpool. It would have been easy for the men to get work on a ship to America if they wanted to go and then send for their families to come over at a later date if the money was short.


Blue

I'm reading Ken Rogers' "Lost Tribe - The People's Memories" at the moment and a quote from around the time of Liverpool's highest Irish population gives a hint at the attraction of the city:-

"The boom creates its own special excitement..."

The physical conditions that were experienced by working class people in Victorian Liverpool are often highlighted but the life or buzz of the city is usually overlooked. The Irish were a lively people coming to a lively city. Not just any city but a busy port with an interesting mix of people living there permanently or on a temporary basis. I think the Irish loved Liverpool and that's the reason why so many Irish people settled in Liverpool.


Blue

I like that, don't forget to do us a review on our board when you've finished please.