Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi there DS

This gg grandmother was married in London and she claims her father (deceased) was a miner from Killarney. The Killarney reference is on the 1911 census too. I found a record of her having an illegitimate child in a workhouse in London in 1898/9. I purchased her record regarding this from the Metropolitan Archive, but she states in there that she does not know where she was born or who her parents were. She said that she lived with a couple by the name of Henry and Kate Archer, who told her that she was not their child. She claims she just assumed their name and that they worked on fairgrounds.

I found a record of a Henry and Catherine Archer in Ireland, but not Killarney, having a daughter named Catherine. That is the only record I can find anywhere. The other strange thing is that Kathleen Archer (as my gg grandmother called herself) was married to my gg grandfather within less than a year of having this baby and discharging herself from the workhouse. Also the illegitimate child was living in Amersham with the gg grandfather's parents.

All very mysterious and nothing to do with Liverpool I'm afraid - hence no post on this site regarding her.

Any ideas where I could look further would be greatly apreciated though;)

That ok? If I were you I would put some more facts and dates in to clarify.

MaryA wrote:That ok? If I were you I would put some more facts and dates in to clarify.

TVM MaryA!
I echo your suggestion and have carried forward my own...

Give the crew as much info as you have. Interesting that your paternal g.g.mother managed to get her place of birth on her marriage cert! Or is that her 'Residence at marriage' in column 6? When and where was she married? Where does the "fairground travellers" thought come from?

Is this her marriage?
Marriages Jun 1899: Archer, Kathleen Phillis married Harris, Henry George - Wandsworth 1d 1174

1901: RG13 Piece 470 Folio 151 Page 44
1910+1: 3 LILIAN ROAD, STREATHAM, MITCHAM, Surrey

Hi there DS

Yes this is the one. Maybe it was on the 1911 census that she said she came from Killarney. She also said that her father was a miner (deceased) named Henry. Furthermore she was in a workhouse having an illegitimate baby in 1898. I purchased the admission record from the Met Archives and she told the staff there that she did not know where she was born, she did not know who her parents were, but was given to Henry and Katie Archer and assumed their name. She also said that they kicked her out of a place in Croydon where they lived as travellers/gypsies.

My research has thrown up one Henry Archer with a wife Catherine nee Cullen. I found them on LDS and they came from somewhere in Ireland, not Killarney though. They also had a numbr of children including a Catherine Archer born in 1874 (I think). There is certainly no record of either of them in England that I can find. The man she married Henry Harris came from Coleshill near Amersham. Oddly enough there are some Archers in that area at that time, but I cannot make a connection. It seems she has told many people many lies.

Her illegitimate son is living with her in-laws in Coleshill in 1901 and 1911 which makes me think that Henry Harris is his father. It is all very strange. The baby, John Courtney Archer remained part of the Harris family until he married, I believe from distant cousins who are still alive. I have his birth certificate and there is no father named on there. All very, very odd.

Any suggestions you can make for me to search somewhere else would be greatly appreciated. I think my little grey cells are exhausted on this one!

Kathy

Hi Kathy,
From what you have said it is quite possible Kathleen was a child of an 'itinerant' family in Ireland. The word itinerant is a general term used to describe the 'traveller' community here in Ireland. They are not gypsies as such although they may have an area they call 'home' to which they will return from time to time, perhaps to over-winter.

The itinerant people back then bore no resemblance to the 'travellers' of today with their big SUVs and luxury caravans. They were poor people with a high death rate. Some had horse-drawn caravans, others were pedestrian living under a scrap of canvas at the roadside. They travelled the county [or country] looking for casual work. It was a very hand-to-mouth existence.

A scenario.... Such a home area could have been Killarney and the female child may well have been an unwanted burden on an already distressed family. The child could have been sold to a childless couple in the area and because the child was an itinerant she may not have been registered at birth or even at all.

Thank you for this information DS. Do you think she would have travelled from Ireland alone? She would have been quite young - teenager probably. The baby's birth certificate (which I also have) gives a former address in Clapham (south London) as her address prior to going into the workhouse to give birth. I am interested to establish how she met her husband and why his family took on her baby. All very strange and maybe I will never know.

Thanks for all your help. Fascinating.

Kathy

Kathy wrote:Do you think she would have travelled from Ireland alone? She would have been quite young - teenager probably. The baby's birth certificate (which I also have) gives a former address in Clapham (south London) as her address prior to going into the workhouse to give birth. I am interested to establish how she met her husband and why his family took on her baby. All very strange and maybe I will never know. Kathy

As a teenager she might have been employed as a 'domestic' by a family who moved to London. If her spouse's family took on the raising of her illegitimate child I would strongly suspect the spouse, or a close relative, was the child's father.