Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all
If I may be cheeky and point my post to Dickiesam as I see you are based in Ireland.
My problem is finding information on Irish Geneology sites. I have tried the obvious LDS - Irish Ancestors etc but it appears that they mainly only list people who moved to the USA.
I have my GGgrandmothers birth place from the 1911 Cencus as Waterford but stories passed down seem to think the connection is Mayo.
Incidentally they didn't move further than Bootle/Liverpool and I have found the connections there but going back further is proving a problem.
Any help you lovely people can give will be greatly appreciated.
Yappie

Have you had any luck searching the 1901 census of Ireland which is now online
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

Irish Civil Registration which began in 1864 is on the www.family search.org site. Open the site then go to search records and then on the drop down menu choose Record Search Pilot.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Sorry Ladies I seem to have confused you. I have my GGGrandmother back to the 1871 cencus in Bootle. The 1881 - 1891 -1901 cencus just show her birth place as Ireland but on the 1911 cencus is shows her birth place as Waterford Ireland. On these cencus my GGgrandfather's birth place is shown as Ireland - Birkenhead and Neston Cheshire. I am looking for a site to research the Irish side. I have tried Lds Family Search - Irish Ancestors Genuk but no results.
Sorry for the confusion.
Yappie

Actually I was giving you a site to search for Irish Ancestors - the site that has civil registration records on it.

The problem you have is that as you really do not know where the family come from you have a huge area to search.

It may be woirth searching both the 1901 and 1911 census for ireland for the family name centering your search on Waterford and Mayo. Does the family name appear? Are there any first names that sound familiar as if they could have been handed down the generations?

I would also search for other family memebers in the UK do they give more clues to where the family came from?

Check out the Griffith's Valuation - I can't remember a site at the moment but if you google it soemthing will come up - it's free on some sites. Just found it www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml Does the family name show up in Waterford or Mayo? Do any of the first names sound familiar?

Where the couple in Bootle married in Engalnd - if so do you have parent's names? If you do try searching for them?

Hope that gives you a few more ideas

I would also suggest maybe getting a book on tracing Family History in Ireland as that may have lots of ideas.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Hi Yappie,
Maybe I need new glasses.. but I can't see any ages from censuses for your g.g.grandmother. You should post a probable year of birth and of course her name. I assume you have her father's name from a marriage cert so post that as well?

Hilary and MaryA have given you all the pointers I would have. Searching for BMDs prior to 1864 relies on surviving parish and church records. There are considerable collections arranged by county/parish here: http://www.rootsireland.ie/

It's free-to-search site but there's a charge of €5.00 [about £4.50] to see the content of a record. You have to register [for free], then click on the County Centres button on the left. Unfortunately, Co. Waterford has no plans to join this online service at present. The site suggests you contact the Waterford Centre via e-mail at mnoc -[at]- iol.ie

And I wouldn't rule out further searches on the CLDS FamilySearch site.

Brian

Email address amended to prevent spamming, replace the -[at]- with @ to use. MA

Sorry Folks - I was looking for Irish Websites.
I first have the family on the 1871 cencus.
Patrick Rudy 36 (abt 1835) born Ireland
July Rudy 30 (abt 1841) born Ireland
James Rudy 4 (abt 1867) born Ireland
July Rudy 1 (abt 1870) born Heath Charnock Adlington
RG10/4196 page 10

The surname should read Ruddy and the female names should read Julia.
Subsequent cencus give James' birthplace as Birkenhead and Neston Cheshire.

I have the birth certificate for Julia (surname spelt Rudey) born 1869 with mother's name Julia Murphy. I have no marriage certificate assuming the parents were born in Ireland. I sent for a marriage certificate for the year 1877 in Bootle (knowing our ancestors liked to put the cart before the horse so to speak) but it was the wrong Julia and Patrick.

I am very grateful to you all for your advice and will try the Websites suggested.

Regards
Yappie

If you believe that the marriage took place in Ireland, and it looks possible, especially if you haven't found it in England, then hopefully there is a three year span where you might get lucky from the Irish indexes, but it's not easy to match them up.

First off I checked the LDS Pilot Site and didn't find a probable marriage transcribed from the Parish Registers.

So it will be like going back to the early days of English research where each occurrence of the name on the GRO indexes had to be matched up with the other and checked if they were on the same page.

In case you never did this you would need to search for say Julia Murphy first and take a note of the references for each one you find from the start of registration up to maybe 1870. Then search for Patrick with all variations of Ruddy that you can think of and fingers crossed one of the references will match with a Julia entry then you have your couple.

I think the biggest problem you have is they just put Ireland as their place of birth.

On www.cheshirebmd.org.uk there is a birth registration in 1867 for a James REDDY in the Birkenhead registration district which could tie in with what he later states as his birth place.

On the site you can can a filled in form to send off if you put the information as to the father etc that you have they will only charge you if they have it. I'd just give father's name because tyhere is always the possibility Patrick married twice.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Hi Folks
Many thanks for taking the time to reply to my enquiry. I emailed Waterford Heritage Services (taken from the website you recommended) but they have not subscribed to putting their documents on line (and have no intention of doing so) and their charge is 100 Euros to do a search for the marriage I am looking for. I am going to have to save a few pennies to do this.
I am posting just in case anyone else is interested.
Regards
Yappie

Hi Hilary
Thank for looking at the Cheshire records for me. I sent for the certficate you mentioned some time ago and it is not my James. I think as far as this branch of the family is concerned I am going to need to find something else to do (like knitting )
Again thank you all for your time.
Regards
Yappie

Hi Yappie,
Before you lays out any cash for a Waterford marriage search you should try a trawl of the Irish BMD indexes from when they started in 1864 to 1867 when you know the family were in Liverpool. http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsea ... tml#p=home

Because the site is still not complete it doesn't give the spouse's name in each case. So as MaryA suggested..

In case you never did this you would need to search for say Julia Murphy first and take a note of the references for each one you find from the start of registration up to maybe 1870. Then search for Patrick with all variations of Ruddy that you can think of and fingers crossed one of the references will match with a Julia entry then you have your couple.

It can be a lengthy process so I would suggest you run the Patrick Ruddy search first. There are fewer PRs than Julia Murphys! Include all registrations in the county of Waterford.

Good hunting!
Brian

Hi Folks
Thank you all - especially Brian - for your help and would just like to say Kathy has helped me solve the mystery of Patrick & Julia's marriage.. She's a STAR.
Yappie

Don't keep us in suspense, Tell us all!!!

PS I would never recommend anybody use one of the Heritage Centres, Dickiesam I don't know if you know the Yola Farmstead in Wexford, apparently they charge (and this was about five years ago), 15 Euros just to take details of the search and give you a quotation for what they MIGHT discover.

Ok Maryann you asked for it. Last December I sent for a marriage certificate for Patrick & Julia but discarded it because the ages were wrong. After I posted here I dug the certificate out and had another look. I discovered that the address was Dundas Street where Patrick & Julia lived. Kathy had a look at the certificate and did a few checks and confirmed for me that the certificate was them. Typical of my ancestors they had 4 children before they married in 1875. I then checked back to the 1911 cencus when Julia was living with her son and that showed that Julia had been married 37 years although her son was 46. Have I shocked you all ?? Not me I have very colourful ancestors.
Again I will say a big thank you to you all for your help and encouragement
yappie

We love a good story, many of our ancestors didn't marry until they had a few children, sometimes it would be very interesting to know why.

Events like this happen still nowadays, it seems commonplace that couples just live together without bothering to make it legal, but my neighbours married and had their son as a pageboy and three daughters were bridesmaids. The world never changes does it