Alfred E Goodrich

[Philip Roberts]

I am a direct descendant in the Grosart family of Liverpool and Scotland before that. I am trying to locate information regarding Alfred E Goodrich who married my aunt, Alice Mary Grosart. I have reason to believe that Mr. Goodrich (Uncle Alf) worked at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine sometime in the 1950 's period. Also, any information about George Grosart (not to be confused with George K Grosart - another sibling) who resided with my grandparents, Alexander and Alice Mary Grosart (mother and father of the above named Alice Mary) in Siddley Street, Liverpool in the 1930's

[dickiesam]

Hello Philip,
I assume you have their marriage?
Marriages Dec 1918 > Goodrich, Alfred E TO Grosart, Alice M - W.Derby - 8b - 983.

I can see only 1 Alfred Goodrich in the 1901 [bn 1890 =/- 10 years]:
GOODRICH, Alfred - Son - 11 - bn Halton, Cheshire.
Parents John [shipwright] and Sarah Goodrich.
Address: 12 Back Mount, Chorley, Lancashire.
RG13 / Piece:3935 / Folio:12 / Page:15.

Unfortunately I can't find a trace of a George Grosart between 1890 and 1940, other than the birth of George K in Jun qtr 1914 [to maiden name Rogers]. There are quite a few Grosarts so I am wondering if George was not his first forename.

Dickiesam

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Are you connected with Troupman who has recently posted a query about the name Grosart?
http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=9927

[Philip Roberts]

I thank you for the replies. First I am apparently related to Troupman and know of his intersts. He says that I am his fourth cousin once removed. This only came to light as my interests developed. He has a wealth of information but mainly with the Sottish connections and he is helping me with that side of things.

I am the son of Violet Grosart who married Walter Roberts, hence my name. My mother, Violet was a daughter of Alexander and Alice Mary Grosart of 29 Siddely Street, Lark Lane, Liverpool. They had several children. One was named Alice Mary, the same as her mother. The Alice Mary that I am referring to, (the daughter) married Alfred E Goodrich. I only knew him as Uncle Alf who worked at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine. I have not had any response from my inquiry with them.

The George that I refer to seemed to be a mystery person. I know only a bit about him but met him several times when my family went to visit my grandmother. His origins are the subject an attitude within the family of "don't talk about him".

The George K Grosart was my Uncle Ken. I must assume this was the name he/they preferred because of the mystery surrounding the other "George" previously mentioned. My Uncle Ken married a lady named Winifred Burbridge.

The mysterious "George" remained with my Grandmother after my Grandfather died in 1938. My Grandmother and "George" then went to live in Meliden, nr. Prestatyn, North Wales where she eventually died. I do not know what happened to "George".

[garstonite]

Alexander Grosart married Alice Mary Rogers at St Michaels in the Hamlet 1896 ....it is on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
allan

[Philip Roberts]

Thank you again for quick responses. I am aware of my grandparents marriage and have visited the church. I will be in Liverpool doing more research from 16 - 20 August.

[erika]

Hi Philip

1938 Liverpool Directory has

Alfred Edward Goodrich Laboratory Assistant 23 Melwood Drive L12

Think somebody has a later directory that may help too.

Cheers
Erika

[Philip Roberts]

Thank you so much for the message re Alfred Goodrich and the School of Tropical Medicine. The address is terrific and is a great step forward for me.

[northmeols]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Liver ... hool_1.JPG

http://www.merseyworld.com/precinct/Dec98/prec7.html

[CaroleW]

The mysterious "George" remained with my Grandmother after my Grandfather died in 1938. My Grandmother and "George" then went to live in Meliden, nr. Prestatyn, North Wales where she eventually died. I do not know what happened to "George".

George Kenneth Grosart b 15.3.1914 died September qtr 1978 in Colwyn

Winifred Grosart was b 12.8.1910 and died in January 1986 in Rhuddlan

Are you sure that plain George Grosart actually existed? There is no birth for a George Grosart and the only Grosart birth with G as a middle name was Francis G Grosart b 1912 and died 1916 aged 4yrs

Just seems strange that there is no trace and yet George Kenneth lived and died in Wales

[Philip Roberts]

I thank you all for your replies. The info re deaths of George K Grosart and his wife Winifred is really useful. I am certain about the mysterious George. As I have said I have met him many times when we all visited my grandmother when she lived in Meliden. He had a dog named Mick and he worked as a bus cleaner (inside of the buses) at Rhyl. I remember being at the house in Meliden when the dog was taken to a Vet. in Rhyl and had to be put down. This really was a very sad time for George. I do not wish to insult him but he really wasn't of the greatest intelligence and when he was not at work he stayed at home. I am going to go to Meliden in August to see what I can find there. It is only my curiosity about him that needs satisfying. The mystery was created by everyone forbidding us to ask about his origins. I cannot ask any of my family because I think that I am the last of the line unless any of my cousins are still around but I lost touch with all of them in the 1950's.

[dickiesam]

Hi,
Can you remember approximately the year you last knew he was alive? We could find his death and the cert might provide clues as to who he was.

Brian

[Philip Roberts]

The last time that I saw George was at my Grandmothers funeral in 1951.The list of mourners published by the undertakers Messrs Breeze Bros. N.A.F.D., Nant Hall Road, Prestatyn. show him as G. Grosart, son. I know this was not George K Grosart, son, because he did not attend the funeral. I believe that there was a bit of a family disagreement going on at the time but being a grandson I was not interested in it. As I have previously mentioned somewhere "grandchildren were only to be seen and not heard".

The purpose of my visit to Meliden later this month is to see if the current occupants of the house can assist in anyway. I met them about 14 years ago and they told me that they had lived there since buying the house from the Grosarts. I hope that they are still there. I was not interested in family history then. That address was "Allandale" 26 or 28 Fford Tanralt, Meliden.

[northmeols]

could plain george have been an infant when alice mary rogers married. his name may be george rogers and just assumed the grosart name.

[Philip Roberts]

The suggestion that he may have had another name has crossed my mind and I have tried some combinations without success. The story that I eventually elicited but have no evidence to support it (and therefore have not previously published it) was that he may have been the illegitimate child of Edith May Grosart (one of the daughters of Alexander and Alice Mary Grosart, my grandparents). She eventually married Joseph Jansen and I understand went to live in Florida. Whether Joseph Jansen was the father or not I do not know but I would have thought he could have done his honourable duty.

I am really impressed with the support that I am receiving . Many of you seem to have taken up the mystery. If I can crack it in due course, hopefully from the Meliden connection, I will post a message of the result.

[CaroleW]

A possible course of action may be to check the electoral rolls for the Meliden address when you visit for a period when you know he lived there

It would at least give you his surname

There is definitely no birth or death for a George Grosart - only George Kenneth

[Philip Roberts]

I have submitted a response regarding George A Grosart. This is the name entered on the electoral roll for the address in Meliden. I have also visited the house but sadly the person who purchased the property after my grandmother died in 1951 has also sadly died. The record office staff at Hawarden have confirmed for me that George A Grosart existed and resided with my Grandmother. All other efforts to trace ANYONE with the name George A Grosart have failed.

I have also had great success at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine re Alfred E Goodrich. I have his CV and numerous photographs of him and his wife at his retirement party. I can assist if anyone needs any info.

Thank you all once again.

[dickiesam]

Hello Philip,
Thanks for coming back with the update. George A really is a mystery man isn't he? Did the record staff at Hawarden tell you precisely what documentary evidence they had that George A 'existed'. If he was on the electoral roll could they tell you what year he first appeared on the roll? That would give an indication of when he was born.

If the house where your g.mother lived in 1951 was sold soon after her death, George would have had to find other accommodation. So is he still on the electoral roll after the house was sold? I recall George worked, part-time I believe, so he should have had a National Insurance number. The Dept of Social Services [not sure of their proper title] up in Newcastle, Tyne-side, keep records for years and years. With that unusual surname and a known one-time address they might be able to tell you if he drew a pension, or even when contributions/credits on his account stopped.

I know I, and others, trawled the GRO death index from 1951 to 2006 with only the one hit, that of George Kenneth, so it is possible he might still be alive or has died since 2006. My main suspicion is that while Grosart was the name by which he was known to 'authority' it was not his birth name. You mentioned that his background 'wasn't talked about' so it is possible that theory holds water. If he died the death registration might have been in accordance with his birth cert, with a different name. If he was born 'out-of-wedlock' and raised by your g.mother it is very likely he was the son of a daughter or a close family member.

On the other hand it was great to learn you found out so much about Alfred E Goodrich.

Brian

[Philip Roberts]

Thank you all for your interest in George A Grosart. The staff at Harwarden were marvellous. We trawled all of the relevant electoral rolls and "Dear George" appeared the same until closure in 1952. The professional researchers became equally fascinated and spent much time on records that I would not normally have on a Free basis. We parted equally mystified. I went to Meliden and heard about a family there that I remembered and have now written to them. The Liverpool record Office had closed and access was not even available from any satalite bases because they were having difficulties with "their electronics". Not my day really.

The suggestion of a National Insurance number is a good one (nice to have brains). I will follow this line up as well.

[Philip Roberts]

Please see my new message titled George A Grosart.