Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

HI
I AM LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON A MARGARET NELSON WHO MARRIED A JAMES BROWN A STOREKEEPER IN 1870 ORIGINALLY FROM DEMERERA

THEY HAD TWINS CLARA AND WILLIAM AND LIVED IN BRISBANE STREET KIRKDALE FOR MANY YEARS
CLARA MARRIED THOMAS KIRWIN WHO LIVED IN THE SAME STREET NEXT DOOR IN FACT
WILLIAM DIED AS A YOUNG BOY
MY DILEMMA IS THAT THERE IS ONLY 1 MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE FOR MARGARET NELSON AND JAMES BROWN WHICH THE FAMILY HAVE AND IT IS DATED 1870
IT HAS BEEN RE-AUTHENTICATED IN 1919 FOR WHAT REASON I DO NOT KNOW
AND THERE IS NO REFERENCE AS TO WHERE JAMES OR HIS FATHER THOMAS ON THE CERTIFICATE WHERE BORN
YET IT DOES NOT MATCH UP WITH THE DATE AND AGE OF HER DEATH AT ALL
MARGARET BROWN NEE NELSON IS BURIED IN FORD CEMETARY AND HER DEATH IS DATED AS 1909 AGED 48 WHICH MEANS THAT SHE WAS BORN ABT 1861
I HAVE CHECKED BURIAL RECORDS AND IT ALSO STATES HER AGE AS 48 AND THE CORRECT ADDRESS
I DID RING THE RECORDS DEPARTMENT WHO TOLD ME THAT THE RECORDS THEY HAD STATED THAT SHE WAS A MINOR AND FOR ME TO ORDER THE CERTIFICATE IN THE USUAL WAY-YET MY RESEARCH STILL TAKES ME TO THE MARRIAGE OF 1870
THIS MEANT THAT SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN 9 WHEN SHE MARRIED WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE
I WOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR ANY ADVICE

REGARDS
LORRAINE

Hi

For the crew

1901
RG13; Piece: 3468; Folio: 157; Page: 30
1 Brisbane Street
James Brown 50 dock labourer b Demerera
Margaret Brown 45
William Brown 15
Clara Brown 13
Jane Chapman 17 relation
Charles Chapman 15
Chaterine Chapman 8
Sarah Morgan 25

it could be taht whoever regsitered the death was unsure of her age and simply got it wrong it has been heard of before

her age wasn't too realiable anyway according to census

1891
115 Lathom Street
RG12; Piece: 2962; Folio 117; Page 40
James Brown 36 b Liverpool
Margaret Brown 30
Thomas Brown 6
William Brown 5
Clara Brown 3


could you post all the details on the marriage cert going by the 1901 census she could have been about 14/15 when married.

We have found people on here who have varied their ages from one census to next I had one who was 10 years younger in 1871 that they were in 1861

Simone x

Hi
Marriage took place at St Peters in 1870.
It has to be a wrong 'un when you look at the birth
year's for the kiddies in 1891 which Simone has
found.
Doesn't look Wm & Clara were twins?


Tina

There is indeed both a Clara and a William Brown registered in Q1 1888 West Derby 8b 339 so I suspect that the original boy twin died also and maybe another named for him.

I agree with Simone that ages on death certificate may well have been "best guesses" on the part of whoever registered the event, and should not always be taken as accurate.

Can I ask whose birth certificate you have that confirmed the mother's surname as Nelson?

The Chapmans would be worth investigating to see who they were related to.

We look forward to seeing the details from the certificate.

HI ALL
IF YOU LOOK ON THE ACTUAL CENSUS DOCUMENT AND NOT THE TRANSCRIPT YOU CAN SEE THAT CLARA AND WILLIAM ARE THE SAME AGE
IT HAS BEEN TRANSCRIBED WRONG WHICH I HAVE FOUND IS QUITE COMMON
ON ANOTHER CENSUS THEIR FATHER IS TRANSCRIBED AS BEING FROM SOMERSET YET AGIN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL CENSUS IT SAYS DEMARERA BRITISH CITIZEN
I HAVE CLARA'S CERTIFICATE AND IT HAS THE TIME OF HER BIRTH AND AS A TWIN MYSELF I KNOW IT MEANS A MULTIPLE BIRTH
THE BAPTISMS HAVE THE SAME DATE OF BIRTH TOO
WILLIAM DIED WHEN HE WAS 15 IN 1903
THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE HAS MOTHER MARGARET BROWN FORMERLEY NELSON
ALSO WHICH IS INTERESTING IS AN AUNTS NAME ON THE SECTION OF THE INFORMANT
IT SAYS MARGARET HAYES WHO WAS PRESENT AT BIRTH AND LIVED 2 DOORS AWAY IN CONWAY STREET
THIS AUNT COULD BE A NEIGHBOUR BUT NOT MARGARET BROWNS SISTER BUT COULD BE AN INLAW OR JAMES SISTER WHO HAS MARRIED A HAYES
I HAVE NOT DISCOVERED WHO THE CHAPMANS ARE YET
YET I HAVE JANE AND CHARLES 10 YEARS PREVIOUS LIVING WITH THEIR PARENTS NAN AND COUSIN IN 1891 IN LEYDEN STREET KIRKDALE
LORRAINE

Just to muddy the waters a little.


It would seem that the aunt might be worth your while researching.

We still look forward to seeing the details of the certificate - Tina advised you that the marriage took place at St Peters in 1870, unfortunately to view the records you may need to wait now until they are available in another location, otherwise you could check if they are at Huyton.

Might I suggest that it is not "netiquette" to use capitals for your posts, this is also more difficult for others to read. If you need larger text for ease of reading yourself, if you hold down your "ctrl" key and scroll the wheel on your mouse which enlarges or shrinks the font.

You say the marriage was reauthenticated in 1919 can you post details of what it says.

Hi
I write in Uppercase as it suits my specific learning difficulty and stops spelling mistakes so people do not misinterpret what I have written
The Certificate says
This is a true copy of the entry no in the register book of marriages in the district of St Peter
Witnessed by my hand James Montgomery Smith 5th december 1919
I have spoke to the manager in the Cotton Exchange and they have the original record where Margaret is stated as a minor
They have told me that it is not worth getting another certificate as it is not much different apart from age to the one I have
Even if I order her death certificate which states that she was 48 in 1909 this will not prove her real age and I do not know where her father Peter Nelson was born. The census for Margaret states Liverpool but there are too many Margarets in Liverpool to check
Lorraine

Demerara is a region in South America that began as a Dutch colony in 1611, then was captured by the British in 1796. It was located about the lower courses of the Demerara River, and its main town was Georgetown. The British returned the colony to the Dutch in 1802 under the terms of the Peace of Amiens, but re-took control of it a year later. On 13 August 1814 the British combined the colonies of Demerara and Essequibo into the colony of Demerara-Essequibo. On 20 November 1815 the colony was formally ceded to Britain by the Netherlands. On 21 July 1831 Demerara-Essequibo united with Berbice as British Guiana, now Guyana. Demerara is now one of three counties of Guyana, the other two being Berbice and Essequibo.

Thankyou Sue
Lorraine