Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi to all,

I am asking help in finding a birth record for John Keane. He married on Sep 7, 1903 in Sydney Australia to Charlotte Foster. His parents were James Keane and Mary McCourt. His marriage record says he is 24 years old and born in Liverpool England. He therefore should have been born about 1879 but I cannot find a birth record for him. Any help would be appreciated.

Regards, Frank

Hi Frank
A warm welcome to the forum from the other end of the globe
Members will be getting their beauty sleep!
All the best with your search
Tina

Added for the crew-something or nothing?
I thought I'd look for the marriage of the parents
I've found one in march qtr 1879
Mary McCourt to James CAIN (Lancs BMD)
Lpool R.O or registrar attended
Lpool RC marriages have him as KAIN
St Mary's Highgate.

Hi Tina, thanks for your reply. Do you feel the James Cain marriage might be James Keane? There are a lot of Cain in Liverpool around that time but I can't find any Keane so it could be the same guy. The John Keane I'm after immigrated to Australia before 1903. I suppose his parents could have immigrated while he was a minor but I can't seem to find any immigration records either.

My wife is Australian from NSW.

Regards, Frank

I had a look on the 1881 census, there were no James keane in Liverpool, there are a few with various spellings, the nearest one I could find was

James Kean age 28 Ships Stoker bn Liverpool
Wife Mary age 27 bn L,pool
No children though.

RG11 3598 folio 132 page 41 6H in 1 Ct Blenheim Street.

Is there an occupation for James on the marriage cert please?


Jan

Hi Frank & Tina

Found this family in 1881

at 34 Dennison Street
RG11; Piece: 3607; Folio: 60; Page: 9

Mary Cane 24 head, married b Liverpool
John Cane 1 son b Liverpool
Catherine Mecurt 59 mother (reckon image could say McCourt?) b Ireland
Elizabeth Mecurt 20 sister b Liverpool
Mary O'connor 20 servant
Ellan Cane 5 niece

what do you think

Simone x

Great find Simone,

I think the family are all together on the 1871 census as McCourt, the ages tally with the 1881, and birth places.

McCourt 1871
at Dennison Street
RG10; Piece: 3771; Folio: 136; Page: 10
Catherine McCourt 50 charwoman b Ireland
Terrence McCourt 20 Light Porter b Lpool
John McCourt 18 labourer b Lpool
Mary McCourt 14 b Lpool
Elizabeth McCourt 10 b Lpool


1861
RG9; Piece: 2663; Folio: 98; Page: 12
44 Dennison St

Owen McCourt 40
Catherine McCourt 38
Terence McCourt 10
John McCourt 8
Mary McCourt 4
Bridget Morney 42 servant

1851 census
HO107; Piece: 2178; Folio: 93; Page: 18
18 Ford Street
Owen McCoart 33 labourer b Ireland
Catherine McCoart 32
Micheal McCoart 9 b Ireland


Ta Jan

Simone x

Cain family mistranscribed in 1891 possibly not sure if same family
RG12; Piece: 2974; Folio 75; Page 32
27 Shelley Street, Bootle
all born Liverpool
Mary Cam 34 married
John Cam 11 son
Mary Cam 8 daughter
Nellie Cam 17 cousin
Ellen Cam 4 daughter
Owen Cam 1 son


wonder where dad is, obviously pops back now and again to have children

there are a couple of Owen Cains that fit age wise in 1901, but have different fathers, but also siblings don't fit right with family, not sure about this family maybe them he would be named after grandad Owen McCourt

Simone x

More great finds Simone,

I was thinking about the ones in Bootle,

There are baptisms on Liverpool Roman Catholic site for Elizabeth Ellen Kane 1886 and one for a James Cain 1888, St James Bootle, mmn Mary McCourt.

Jan

Nice one Jan perhaps it is them then

Simone x

Hi Jan and Simone, thanks for your interest. On John Keane marriage certificate in 1903 in Australia it says that his father James was a WATERMAN for occupation. John Keane who it says is 24 is a STOKER born in Liverpool.

Looks like we might be getting somewhere. Once we find the rigth family I would like to find out when John immigrated to Australia.

Frank

The Canes/McCourts at 34 Denison Street in the 1881 Census were neighbours of my Irish born Holland family, William, Jane & their son Patrick who lived at 36a Denison Street. Catherine McCourt is listed as:-

Relation: Mother
Condition: Widow
Age: 59
Occupation: Laundress
Born: Ireland

Catherine McCourt was Godmother to Patrick's sister Mary Ann Holland when she was baptised at St Mary's RC church on 15th March 1882.


Blue

Well done girls, excellent detective work on Keane/Cain/Caine/Kane/Cam - heck just how many spellings can a man have??

Small world Blue, nice one!

Just brilliant!
I looked in fmp# shipping but only for Kean/Keane/Keen/Keene

Tina

Hi Frank

I have in my family tree James Keane & Mary Theresa McCourt....arrived in Sydney Australia in 1892......with children Mary Catherine,Owen & John
Margaret Frances was born here in Sydney...also bought a niece with them Ellen ( I think that's her name)......James & Mary married in Liverpool UK under the name CAIN in 1879....I have been unable to find birth cert. for any of them, including Margaret. I have found 2 John's in BDM for NSW.....one died 1911 & one in 1915.....I know it was before 1948 as he is listed as deceased on his mothers death cert. James Keane died 1924. Please advise if we are on same page, this is my mothers side of the family, & I keep coming to a dead end....Mary Theresa's parents were Owen McCourt & Catherine Adrien (or Adrian) both born in Ireland. maybe County Clare
A daughter Elizabeth died before departing for Australia, and then their trip was delayed until 1892
look forward to hearing from you
Margaret

meeg wrote:Hi Frank

...also bought a niece with them Ellen ( I think that's her name

wonder if that will be Nellie then, who is listed as cousin with Mary and the family in 1891

Simone x

Hi Meeg, glad to hear from you. I believe your family and my wife's family on her mothers side are the same lineage. My wife is from Australia and lived in Sydney. Looks like you are a descendant of Margaret Frances Keane and my wife a descendant of her older brother John. I have information on John's marriage in 1903 in Sydney and his daughter who was my wife's grandmother. She married into the Macrae's in Sydney and I have the Macrae lineage going back to the 1200's in Scotland. I'm sending you a private message Meeg, so we can pursue the Australian connections.

Thank you to everyone for all the help. It's looking to me like the Cane family living on Dennison Street might be the Keane family although I don't know where James Keane (Cane, Cain) is in the census of 1881 and 1891. I suppose he could have been away when the census were taken although I would have thought his name would have been recorded. With Meeg connection with dates and names in Australia the family seems to tie in with my John Keane. Her mention of James Cain 1879 marriage to Mary Mccourt must be the same one that Tina posted in the 1st reply to this post. Do you guys read this the same way?

Frank

Yes Frank, I agree with that

Simone x

There's a married James Cain aboard the vessel 'Victor Emanuel' an Acting Sergeant Marines in 1881

RG11; Piece: 5637; Folio: 65; Page: 7

simone wrote:There's a married James Cain aboard the vessel 'Victor Emanuel' an Acting Sergeant Marines in 1881

RG11; Piece: 5637; Folio: 65; Page: 7

Hi Simone, where did you find this info?

Thanks, Frank