Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

This is not to do with Liverpool but just wondering whether any of you clever people help!

I'm helping a friend with her family history. I have now obtained copies of her mother and siblings baptisms in India. Unfortunately they do not give the mother's name. I have also obtained the baptism of the father also in India. I've searched the GRO Overseas Indices for a possible marriage of a Percy William Henry Woods to Lilian with no success. Can anyone suggest anywhere else I can search.

I do know that when Percy was born in Ranikhet in 1894 his father was a Sergeant in the 1st Hants Regiment. When Percy's first child was born in 1922 in Kalabagh Percy was a Captain I. A. R. O which I presume is to do with the Indian Army.

The British Library has been really helpful but it'd be good if I could perhaps find a bit more myself.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Hi,
With the absence of a marriage in the overseas GRO Indices, Army etc, did he marry in the UK? There's a Lily [not far from Lilian!] here:
Marriages Mar 1922:
Elson, Lily - Woods - Guildford - 2a - 116.
WOODS, Percy - Elson - Guildford - 2a - 116.

The IARO stands for Indian Army Reserve of Officers: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O25-IARO.html

Dickiesam

You beat me to it Dickiesam! I was also looking to see if there might have been children to the union born in England, but there doesn't appear to be any, so maybe another clue that they were born abroad.

Thanks Daggers and Mary.

I don't think he was married in England. The First child was born 23 January 1922 in India. He does seem to have been keen on his full name - I've found him and his wife on a number of passenger lists coming to and fro in the 1930s and 1940s. His wife also seems to always use Lilian. The children went to school in what is now Pakistan and then were brought back aged 11 and 14 to be left in England to continue their education.

I think a trip to the British Library could be the answer!!

Hilary
Ed Officer

Only a small point I know but, according to the GRO ARMY BIRTH INDICES (1881 to 1965), Percy was born in 1893 [Rani Khet - 304].

And re: I have now obtained copies of her mother and siblings baptisms in India. Unfortunately they do not give the mother's name.

Are the children's [mother and siblings] births listed in military or consular records? If you would prefer not to post their names and YoBs, perhaps you could PM them to me to see if they are there when a birth cert might be forthcoming.

Dickiesam

Sorry Dickie Sam I gave you the wrong name on my previous posting I do apologise.

The Baptism I have received is from Baptisms solemnized at Ranikhet and yes Percy was born 22 Dec 1893 and christened the following March. Actually I have found the marriage of Percy's parents in Winchester.

The sticking point is the name of Percy's wife. With no apparent registration of the children or a marriage it's at the moment stuck but I have hopes of the British Library. Nothing appears as far as I can see in any GRO indices. The children were born in 1922 at Kalabagh fatehr a Captain in the Indian Army Reserve and then twins at Malkera Colliery Katra. I have their baptisms but no maiden name for the mother.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Education Officer wrote:Sorry Dickie Sam I gave you the wrong name on my previous posting I do apologise.

The Baptism I have received is from Baptisms solemnized at Ranikhet and yes Percy was born 22 Dec 1893 and christened the following March. Actually I have found the marriage of Percy's parents in Winchester.

The sticking point is the name of Percy's wife. With no apparent registration of the children or a marriage it's at the moment stuck but I have hopes of the British Library. Nothing appears as far as I can see in any GRO indices. The children were born in 1922 at Kalabagh fatehr a Captain in the Indian Army Reserve and then twins at Malkera Colliery Katra. I have their baptisms but no maiden name for the mother.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Hilary, I have sent you a PM.

Dickiesam

Hi Hilary
I'm guessing you will have used both of these excellent sites but will list just in case.
It also gives me the chance to list them for people who are not aware of them.

All the best with your search.
Tina

http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/Home.aspx

http://www.fibis.org/

I've had some luck with the British Library site in the past but possibly the areas you need aren't on them.

I checked for a burial for either of them too, but no joy.

Thanks folks yes I've been using the British Library and they've been really helpful - I shall have to see if they can find Percy's marriage.

Dickie Sam's also had a go at the GRO Indices for teh births of the children but he didn't have any success either - at elast I know I wasn't missing them so many thanks.

I'll let you know if I find Percy's marriage.

Many thanks everybody
Hilary

Although the dates are later than the couple I was tracing in India, could it be possiblle that the wife/mother was Indian and that no marriage took place. In my case I found a child's baptism on IGI and through the British library but no marriage. Just a thought.
Barbara

More thoughts...
If there was a marriage, since Percy was an Indian Army Reserve Officer, I'm wondering if it would have been announced in the Times of India:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/archive.cms
Although this page only has recent digitised archives, there may records back to the 1920s, including birth announcements.

And, like Barbara, I have been wondering whether Lilian, Percy's 'wife', may have been Indian or Anglo-Indian. Interracial marriage was not uncommon, particularly 'English' to Anglo-Indian. Any clues in the general colouring of the children? Eye colour etc?

Since Lilian is known to have traveled from and to India with Percy, did she have a UK passport? She would have to produce documentation regarding her 'origin' etc. And can passport applications be accessed outside of Kew? I know FMP has some but only up to 1904. Similarly, did the children ever get a passport? They would have needed a birth cert.

Dickiesam

The lady in question was I am fairly certain of white British origin. Yes she had a British passport as did Percy and all the children . They all appear on different passenger lists and no doubt did have birth certficates (in fact on a written letter by one of the children she says they did not have birth certificates in England when they signed up for the forces because these were in India. However these have been lost which is why I am looking for a marriage. As non of the children are listed in the GRO indices but I have received their baptisms with dates of birth from the British Library I have asked them how I might find the marriage in the hope they have it recorded at a church.

I will let you all know the results. I would imagine their British Passportsd would have been issued in India so the documentation would be more likely to be in the British Library collections than at the National Archives.

I tried the link to the India Times but there don't seem to be early archives available.

Thanks everybody

Hilary
ed Officer

The British Library have responded that they have Percy's marriage and are sending me a copy.

Yesterday I was in the library on Anvestry Library Collection and I put in percy and he popped up in the 1901 census. I was flabbergasted as he'd never done so before. Anyway he was with his parents and siblings staying with his grandfather in Chislehurst kent. Armed with this information I have managed to get his family back another 3 generations!
The family certainly moved about a bit but not into our area!

I can't wait to see my friends face when I see her on Thursday!

Many thanks for everyone's help. Incidentally Percy's father who was in the 1st Hants Regiment is listed as Staff Sergeant Bengal India Unattached List! I think he moved regiments.

Hilary
Ed Officer