Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all
I hope you can help me out. I was recently given an old camera that turned out to have film still inside. When I had it processed, all the shots were of a grave belonging to a man named Edward Langan.

I'd love to know where this grave is, and more about him, but no idea how to go about it.

You can see the pictures and read the full story on my website here:
http://scienceblogs.com/sciencepunk/201 ... in_old.php

The details I know so far are what is written on the tombstone:
Sweet Jesus
receive the kindly Soul of
a devoted husband and father
EDWARD LANGAN
died 19th April 1967
also JAMES RYAN
beloved brother of AGNES and
dearest uncle of JOHN & NORMA
died 10th March 1958

The death certificate apparently states he was estimated 75 yrs old at death, and was recorded in South Liverpool. (England & Wales Death Index for 1916-2005 (deaths registered in April, May & June, 1967--vol. 10D, pg. 424))

I also found a birth record for Edward Langan in 1886 from the Hulme register (HUL/259/90)

Also, the pictures had to be taken after 1973 because that brand of film only existed then.

Any help much appreciated! It's an intriguing mystery.

Hi and welcome to the forum, I hope we can be of some help to you.

If he was 75 years old at the time of his death, I think we should be looking for a birth nearer 1892 than 1886, pity it was earlier than the time when the exact date of birth was given, but then it depends on the knowledge of people who give the details at the time.

Like one of the posters on the other forum, I wondered if Vaclav Ondracek's grave would be of help in finding out which cemetery it is, he is noted as being D.S.O. M.C. D.F.C. which I believe would be military awards, probably airforce, so I googled this and found a List of members of the Czechoslovak Air Force in the RAF (1940-1945) translated from Czech. Not a lot of good I know, but his death in the indexes is given as 1973 in Liverpool, which would confirm the suspicions of the photographs being taken at the earliest 1973.

The obvious next step to take, always supposing that you don't mind spending the money that it might have cost you to get the film developed, is to get the death certificate and discover who registered the death, and their address. You can order it online using the details that you have, for £7 at http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

I would say that this is a RC grave and therefore is either in a purely Catholic cemetery or in the Catholic part of a cemetery. I also think there has just been a new internment.

The Britich Phone Books give a Langan at 323 Queens Drive (Stoneycroft Exchange) it's the only Langan. There are 2 Ondracek one Thomas Lane (Stoneycroft exchange) and one in Birkdale.

Hilary
Ed Officer

I would agree that despite the datesit would seem that there has been a recent internment, hence the flowers.

Hilary, out of interest, what would be your reasoning behind your suggestion of it being RC? is it just the style of headstones or anything else?

Queens Drive, Stoneycroft doesn't feel right to me for a Liverpool South registration, I would have expected Toxteth/Garston and that sort of area, but then the family may have moved later after the death. What dates were the entries in the phone books please?

Re the entries in the phone books they were in the 1950s and 1960s on Ancestry and were the only entries for the surnames Langan and the Czech one in the area. They could be red herrings.

My reasoning for it being RC was the use of the words "Receive the soul" which sounded far more Catholic than Protestant.

Felt the new internment was indicated by the very many new flowers on the grave.

As the dead of death is known there just might be mention in the Echo.

Hilary
Ed Officer

I found this marriage in 1923

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1923
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
RYAN Agnes C LANIGAN Edward Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_LP/344/131

There was a John Lanigan mmn Ryan born 1924.

I looked at the deaths indexes for Mar 1958 for a James Ryan, there were 3 listed. all in their 60's at death, I found a particular one who was born c1893, I also found a family in the 1901 census that included a James Ryan and a sister Agnes. I don't know if any of this is relevant though.

Jan

That has a good feel to it Jan, well done!

There is a family in the 1901 census that I would think fit, unfortunately blasted Ancestry won't let me see the image so I can't get the address, all I know is that it's in Toxteth Park which is good for the area of the death.

Family consists of LANIGAN - although the original transcription is Canigan and an error has been posted.
Richard 34, Nancy 33, Edward 9, Frances 7, Richard 4, Stanley 2 and Norah 1 month, Margaret 16 who is a niece, all born Liverpool.
RG13; Piece: 3433; Folio: 106; Page: 6

Hi Mary,

Thanks for that, there is also a birth reg 1936 for a Norma B Lanigan mother's maiden name Ryan.

Jan

jan44 wrote: There was a John Lanigan mmn Ryan born 1924.

There is also a birth for Norma B Lanigan, Liverpool S Q1 1936.

I'm thinking that somewhere along the line they lost the i from the name as I can find a marriage .....

This is coming further forward and these people may still be living. I'll send a pm with this information.

We must have posted at the same time Mary, yes I found that marriage too, but I refrained from posting because of the time frame.

Jan

The address on the 1901 is Sussex Street.

Jan

Thanks Jan

Hi

in 1911- 12 ish Edward lived at 10 House 2 Court Mill St Toxteth with mum Catherine a widow age 43 b Lpool and brothers Michael aged 21,Thomas aged 13.. Edward was a Newpaper Vendor.

Hope this helps

xx

Thanks everyone for the sleuthing - a fascinating amount of information to turn up in a day. A lot has come through the main blog too and I'll post a round up later.

Just to let everybody know that although he has not as yet posted an acknowlegement of our efforts on the noticeboard he has replied to me by pm with apologies as he is very busy at work but is "planning to amalgamate all the information from various sources later today".

I look forward to hearing his comments.

RESULT!!

Agnes was also buried in the grave on 27th October, 1977

Grave is in Yewtree Cemetery - Section 1B plot 256

Well done Hilary for your gut feeling of it being a Catholic cemetery!

Fantastic response, thank you everyone. If ever I need a private eye I'll know where to come.

MaryA - beginner's question, but how do we know that Agnes was buried in the same plot?

And would this Yewtree Cemetery (aren't they all(!)) be St Dominics?

Finally, is there a consensus on whether Edward was born to Nancy or Catherine?

I'm planning to write these results up soon, I want to include a current picture of the grave if I can so it might wait until the weekend, but will credit you all then.

Great results. well done Hilary.

Agnes was born in 1905.

Jan

Yew Tree Cemetery is on Finch Lane, West Derby, so far as I know it's an RC Cemetery, rather than one belonging to a church. Here is a plan of the sections http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... yewcem.htm

We know Agnes is buried with her husband and brother because the records give the information who is in that grave!

We'd love to see any up to date photograph and if you get a response from a descendant, I imagine they will be very interested in the story.

Can't give any definite explanation as to why his mum was Catherine later, unless his father remarried and then died himself.

Q4 1894 Toxteth Park, Register Office or Registrar Attended - again probably an RC marriage - Richard LANIGAN married Nancy MCNAULTY.