Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi All ~

I've located the graves of a number of my ancestors via the splendid Toxteth Park Cemetery website.

However, one of them - Ann Greaves - who died aged 47 is buried in a plot that contains 14 other souls. (Nine of which are infants). With the exception of one person, all the others were buried between the 3rd - 18th January 1884 ... so I guess I'm correct in thinking that this is most likely a paupers' grave?

(Sorry if I seem a bit dim but this is the first time that I've come across one of the ancestors being laid to rest in a mass grave!)

Bestest,
Paula.

Hi Paula

Yes its a Paupers Grave..or Public Grave sounds better..


xx

Thanks Collette ... yes, Public Grave sounds more dignified.

Do you happen to know whether the families of those buried in Public Graves would have been 'means tested' (or something similar) to prove that they couldn't afford to bury their deceased relative in a family plot?

I ask this because Ann's husband appears to have been relatively 'well off' - he had his own upholstery business and they lived in a rather 'nice' house. Apparently he didn't mourn Ann - he quickly consoled himself by marrying a younger woman! (He too is buried in Toxteth Cem. - but in a private plot shared with the second wife!)

Bestest,
Paula

It may not have been a pauper's grave, as I understand it a burial could have taken place in general grave probably at a lower price than a purchased grave.

Paupers is probably a crude term to us these days public and private are probably better and more accurate terms. Most of the people in public graves were not destitute they just came from backgrounds where there wasn't the money or the habit of purchasing a private plot.

There's people who bought private graves and buried a number of family members in them and then didn't bother with the gravestone. You might think why pay for private and then leave no marker so no one can see where you are in the cemetery? I have 2 in Ford Cemetery like that.

Col

Ah, thanks Mary and Col ... I guess if the hubby wasn't particularly 'sentimental' about the issues around burial he would have chosen the cheapest option.

Actually I've just been browsing the 1881 census and found that the woman who became the 2nd wife was actually lodging with the family when Ann, the 1st wife, was alive. Such goings-on!!!

Bestest,
Paula.

Blue70 wrote:Paupers is probably a crude term to us these days public and private are probably better and more accurate terms. Most of the people in public graves were not destitute they just came from backgrounds where there wasn't the money or the habit of purchasing a private plot.

There's people who bought private graves and buried a number of family members in them and then didn't bother with the gravestone. You might think why pay for private and then leave no marker so no one can see where you are in the cemetery? I have 2 in Ford Cemetery like that.

Col

Hi Col,

The Ford Cemetery website says there were no pauper's burials at Ford ie no burials paid for by the parish.

A private grave could vary in cost from £3 10s to £10 10s but a single interment cost 14s 6d for adults and 9s 6d for children.


Ant

Hi Ant

I thought public graves were also called paupers graves? I'm not an expert on Ford Cemetery I'm just a learner on Ford so I could be wrong but the Ford website does say:-

"Two-thirds of the burials at Ford were in public graves and so they never had a marker in the first place. One-third of burials were in purchased graves and these may at one time have had a memorial but not all of them still exist."

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... /ford.html


Col

Hi Col,

Up till today I thought the same as you but the website also says Public Graves were also know as single interments

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... facts.html

Scroll down a bit on the link to this line,

There were no pauper burials (ie burials paid for by the Parish authorities) in Ford.


Ant

I think the way to look at it must be that all paupers burials would be in public graves, but not all public graves would be paupers, hope that makes sense!

Thanks Ant you're right well spotted. It makes you wonder why the public graves were not called private too at Ford. They could have just referred to the two types as single interments and family plots.

Col

ZED wrote:Thanks Collette ... yes, Public Grave sounds more dignified.

Do you happen to know whether the families of those buried in Public Graves would have been 'means tested' (or something similar) to prove that they couldn't afford to bury their deceased relative in a family plot?

I ask this because Ann's husband appears to have been relatively 'well off' - he had his own upholstery business and they lived in a rather 'nice' house. Apparently he didn't mourn Ann - he quickly consoled himself by marrying a younger woman! (He too is buried in Toxteth Cem. - but in a private plot shared with the second wife!)

Bestest,
Paula

Do you have an ancestor called Irving. My great great grandmother was Mary Irving b 1817 married to Thomas Standish b 1814. I think that she was born in Liverpool.

Hi Zed - I have also just located my great-grandmother and her father and son in Toxteth cemetery and I'm hoping to visit sometime this month. IF I manage to visit, can't promise anything for the time being, but perhaps you want so send me the section number and grave number, name etc and I'll take a look whilst I'm there. I'm visiting section 10 and 13 for the time being - both being private graves and then theres another grave from my fathers side of the family - Sadly public burial with numerous others. IF I go and this could be of help, please let me know the details a.s.a.p.
Lis.

That's a lovely offer, I hope Zed sees your post and replies, and also to Childwallblues. Thank you.