Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

has anyone got Rose Rainford in their family tree?


born Liverpool 1874
christened liverpool 1879
father is Robert Rainford on marriage cert but William Rainford on christening record

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Have you traced the family through the censuses? If you have I'll transcribe what I can here for the benefit of anybody wishing to assist.

Please give the details from the marriage certificate, particularly address, Robert's occupation and witnesses.

The IGI has the entry for her birth as 6 May 1874 and christening as 7 April 1879, parents William Rainford and Ann.

There is a death that looks possible for William Rainford Q2 1877 West Derby 8b 386 age approx 56.

1881 census
72 Audley Street, Islington, Liverpool
All except Anne born Liverpool
Anne Rainford Head Wid 52 Dressmaker (formerley) Lancashire Speke
Mary E daur Unm 22 Cook
Margaret " " 16
Alice " " 14
Rose " " 6 Scholar
William Travis Boarder Unm 51 Brewer
James Woods " " 34 Seaman
Robert ...... " Mar 45 Labourer - this name is either Crawford or Rainford I can't make up my mind.
RG11; Piece: 3629; Folio: 19; Page: 32

1861
6 Howard Buildings, Mount Pleasant, Liverpool
James Rainford Head M 26 Cotton Porter Lancashire Aughton
Mary Wife M 26 Salop Ellesmere
// Next door at No. 7
Robert Rainford Head M 32 Labourer Lancashire Aughton
Ann Wife M 26 Lancashire Speke
Elizabeth daur 6 " Liverpool
Mary Ellen " 2 " "
Margaret " 8 months " "
John Botho Lodger Unm 19 Labourer Salop Whitchurch
RG9; Piece: 2680; Folio: 68; Page: 12

Maybe the first Margaret died and they named the next one after her. There is quite a gap between Alice and Rose.

My previous find of the death of William was based on the assumption that the christening entry was correct and the father was William.

I've looked for the death of Robert Rainford and there would appear to be two that stand out between the years of 1861 and 1881.

Q3 1865 W. Derby 8b 410 - no age given
or
Q1 1866 Liverpool 8b 253 - age approximately 38.

If Anne's husband was one of these then he couldn't be the father of Rose.

I have found this census for 1871
District Blue Coat School, St George's, Liverpool
Mary E Rainford Inmate 12 Scholar Liverpool Lancashire
RG10; Piece: 3775; Folio: 89; Page: 13

I believe it may prove useful to you to investigate the records of the Bluecoat School, which are held at the Liverpool Record Office and see what information is given about Mary Ellen.

According to www.lancashirebmd.org.uk Robert Rainford married Ann Birchall in 1854 at Childwall All Saints.

I found these other baptisms for the couple Robert and Ann
Elizabeth Ann ch 1 Oct 1854
Joseph ch 20 April 1856
Mary Ellen bn 11 Sept ch 3 Oct 1858
Margaret 4 April 1864 ch 24 April 1864
No baptism found for Alice. Why wait 5 years to have Rose christened and then with a different father. Was there some hanky panky going on? I also cannot find a birth registration for Rose - maybe someone else can.

Have you looked at the actual christening entries to see if Robert and William have the same occupation. I wonder what the addresses are?


Hilary
Ed Officer

thank you for all this info


thank you for the baptisms - were they at Childwall All Saints as well?

I haven't seen the actual record of Rose Rainford's christening - I got the info from the Family Search website (Mormons) which puts her parents as William and Ann - I was very surprised that she didn't get christened till she was 5 but a cousin told me that she was supposed to be either Jewish or half Jewish and I wonder if she was illegitimate with a Jewish father and that's why she didn't get christened when she was a baby.

I have got her wedding cert in 1894 and it gives her father as Robert Rainford, Drayman, deceased.

Chris

cbrotherston wrote:has anyone got Rose Rainford in their family tree?


born Liverpool 1874
christened liverpool 1879
father is Robert Rainford on marriage cert but William Rainford on christening record

Hi Mary A - thanks for this info

I did have the 1881 and 1861 census entries but didn't know they lived next door to another rainford in Howard Buildings - surely related?

It is so sad to see that they probably had two or more children who died - very common at that time.

I will follow up the Blue Coat school link

I haven't seen the actual record of Rose Rainford's christening - I got the info from the Family Search website (Mormons) which puts her parents as William and Ann - I was very surprised that she didn't get christened till she was 5 but a cousin told me that she was supposed to be either Jewish or half Jewish and I wonder if she was illegitimate with a Jewish father and that's why she didn't get christened when she was a baby.

I have got her wedding cert in 1894 and it gives her father as Robert Rainford, Drayman, deceased.

thanks again

Chris

The christenings of the children were all at St Peter's Liverpool. I took them all of www.familysearch.org

You need to check out all these children's baptisms including Rose to see Robert and William's occupations. They did large numbers of baptisms at St Peter's. The addresses may also help.

I think illegitimacy is a possibility but I do think you need to find Robert's death first. The other thought I had is that maybe she was the daughter of one of the other daughters of Robert and Ann. Either way they conveniently decided not to register.

Hilary
Ed Officer

thanks for all this info
I'll be visiting Liverpool in march - where should I go to get the St Peters baptisms records?

Chris

They are on microfilm at the Liverpool Record Office, 4th floor of the William Brown Street Library.

The records for the Bluecoat School are in the Archive Room, take some identification with you.

If you think you may need some help, going to the record office on a Tuesday afternoon when the Society hosts a help desk. You may wish to call ahead and book a microfilm machine, costs only 50p or free if you wanted to take a chance on one being free. If you book, ask for a reader/printer so that you can take photocopies and a pocket full of change - 30p per print.

Good luck