Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi

My grt grandfather John Rice was a stonemason/journeyman from abt 1876-1931, any one any idea how I might get hold of training records, or records from his working life in and around Liverpool/Southport.

Alfred

Hi Alfred,
I don't think you are going to find very much about John Rice's life or work. As a journeyman he would have worked 'by-the-day'. A journeyman was one who had learned to be competent at a craft or trade but was not allowed to teach the trade to apprentices. Only a Master could do that. So he would have had several, if not many, employers which would make finding records almost impossible.

From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary: jour·ney·man
Pronunciation: \-mən\
Etymology: Middle English, from journey, a day's labor + man
Date: 15th century - A worker who has learned a trade and works for another person usually by the day.

He may have belonged to one of the Masons' Societies and you will find several 'Friendly Societies of Stonemasons' for Liverpool listed here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/ ... ate_FR.htm
Just scroll down to Friendly..

And try googling 'stonemasons in Liverpool' and variations. That's how I found the National Archives site.
Good luck,

If you visit the Cathedral you will see exhibits of some of the tools used by the stonemasons in the building of it.

Check his name in the freemens lists at the Liverpool Record Office to see if he is mentioned as an apprentice to a master.

Corrected - thanks Jan!

The Freemasons are a religious order so I don't think there will be anything in their records.

I found this on the Liverpool RO website which may be of help.

RefNo 352 CLE/REG/4
Title Apprentice Enrolment Books
Date 1817-1881
Date 1707-1756
Description Appreenticship indentures had always been entered in the Town Books and in the 17th century various orders were made enforcing the practice. This provided a from of registration which would authenticate any future claims to freedom by servitude. Anyone defaulting could not be guaranteed admission to freedom on a claim of servitdue. The first extant register of enrolment was begun in Sep 1707.

The Enrolment Books give details of the apprentice, his trade and the terms of his apprenticeship.
Extent 3 volumes
AccessConditions Access will be granted to any accredited reader

Jan

My Gt Grandfather, John Rice, born Southport / North Meols about 1855, married Ann Evangeline Lamb 1876 at St George's, Everton was also a stonemason ! Could this be the same man ? are we related ?

Hi Joe

Yes, we have the same john rice.

Can you e-mail me. ajffamilyhistory ~[at]~ yahoo.co.uk

Look forward to your reply.

Alfred

Liverpool

Edited email address to prevent spamming change the ~[at]~ to @ to use. MA