Look Up Request at LRO for Baptism please

[alan donougher]

From the great resource of liverpoolhistoryprojects, I have this information.
Marriage 1863 ref 871 Thomas Cahill to Bridget Brereton at O L Reconciliation, Eldon Place L3

Then from Free BMD, Marriage of Bridget Cahill to John Whittemore Dec qtr 1874

So somewhere in between those two dates Thomas Cahill dies. Now here is the request !

Can anyone please check for me at the Liverpool RO to see if there was a baptism at O L Reconciliation between 1863 & 1868 (!!!???) for James Thomas Cahill, who became the famous husband of Sarah Ellen Cahill, nee Williams.

Would never be able to thank you enough if you came up trumps !

Regards

Alan

[dickiesam]

Hello Alan,
Wondering if this might reduce the time frame for that look-up?
From the 1871 census, the only Bridget born between 1835 and 1845 who is a widow. And there's a son James aged 4.
CAHILL, Bridget - Head - Widow - 30 - 1841 - Washerwoman - Ireland.
CAHILL, James - Son - 4 - 1867 - Liverpool.
CAHILL, Richard - Son - 2 - 1869 - Liverpool.
RG10 - Piece: 3814 - Folio: 132 - Page: 33.
Address: Cellar under #46 Buckingham Street, Everton, Liverpool.

Unfortunately, this James might be:
Births Sep 1867 - Cahill, James Edward - W. Derby - 8b - 269. But might also be: Birth Mar 1868 - Cahill, James - Liverpool - 8b - 40. They are the only two 1864-68.

That 1863 Cahill/Brereton marriage is here: Sep 1863 - Brereton, Bridget to Cahill, Thomas - Liverpool - 8b - 477.
And the only Thomas C death that fits is here: Deaths Dec 1870 - Cahill, Thomas - 40 - Liverpool - 8b - 205.

Cheers,
Dickiesam

[colette]

Marriage of Bridget Cahill to John Whittemore Dec qtr 1874

took place in St Peters Bridget E Cahill..if anyone wants to look it up..


xx

[alan donougher]

Thanks to you for your interest & replies. The main reason for this post is to establish whether James Thomas Cahill was born in Liverpool or Ireland.
James Edward does not appear to be valid. Not sure about the other. Only definite points are, Father was Thomas and James Thomas born circa 1866 +/- .

From previous posts re Sarah Ellen Cahill,l you might realise this is not an easy family to put into little boxes.

But please !! keep trying for me.

Regards
Alan

[dickiesam]

Hello Alan,
Thought I'd look for Bridget and/or John Whittemore in the 1881 to see if her son James was in the household. Couldn't find either of them but then looked for James and found this entry who fits with Bridget's son in the 1871

WHITMORE, Jas - Single - 14 - 1867 - Reformatory Boy - Liverpool.
RG11 - Piece: 3571 - Folio: 70 - Page: 0
Address: Clarence, Lower Bebington, Wirral, Cheshire.

I am very familiar with the Wirral having been raised only a mile or two from Bebington, and I had never heard of 'Clarence'. Googled it and discovered the HMS Clarence was a ship, adapted as a reformatory for Roman Catholic boys, permanently moored in the Mersey off New Ferry.

Dickiesam

[MaryA]

I had never heard of 'Clarence'. Googled it and discovered the HMS Clarence was a ship, adapted as a reformatory for Roman Catholic boys, permanently moored in the Mersey off New Ferry.

Great find Dickiesam!

[alan donougher]

We were never able to find James Thomas Cahill on the 1881. Dickiesam, you may have solved the mystery ! He was going under the name of his mother's second husband.
He reverted to Cahill when he married Sarah Ellen Williams in 1887.
Now if only we could determine whether he was born in England or Ireland !

Thanks very much for the detective work. I have a whole new direction to follow.

Alan

[alan donougher]

Perhaps a fly in the ointment !!??
Free BMD has a birth of a James Whitmore Dec qtr 1867 registered in Altrincham which I believe is in Cheshire. In 1867 I assume my James should have been registered as a Cahill as Brdget's second marriage didn't take place until 1874.
Help !
Alan

[Hilary]

The James Whitmore born 1867 registered Altrincham was the son of Sarah and christened in Northen Cheshire (christening records on ancestry).northen was in Altrincham registration district. I would expect his birth place to be given as Cheshire if he was the one on the Clarence.

There are some records for the Clarence at Liverpool Record Office.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[alan donougher]

Thanks Ed. Officer for your advice.

Dickiesam's find is again exciting. Does anyone have the time to look for "Clarence " records for James Whitmore (hopefully Cahill) on a visit to the LRO ?
I suppose a logical case can be thought through as to why he was on the Reformatory ship as Whitmore but married as Cahill.

Alan

[dickiesam]

Hi folks,
Hope I really did find the mystery man in 1881. I think it would be a good idea to check whether the parents of this James... Birth Mar 1868 - Cahill, James - Liverpool - 8b - 40, are Thomas and Bridget. Birth cert or Lancs records?

If indeed it is him on HMS Clarence, I've a feeling that the authorities may not have known he was not born a Whittemore. And when he married he might have had good reason to revert to his birth surname. Besides Clarence records, might there be magistrates' committal records in the LRO? It would need a magistrate, surely, to put a young lad away for a while?

Dickiesam

[MaryA]

I was thinking about newspaper reports, but it seems the Lancashire Library site is down and I can't do a search at present.

[MaryA]

It wouldn't seem that it was important enough to make the newspapers anyway.

[alan donougher]

Dickiesam,

Please don't take this as sexist or derogatory, but I am sharing your information with real people and I don't know whether to say He or She said.
Can you please enlighten me ?

Thanks
Alan ( or have I missed the obvious in past posts ?)

[Hilary]

I was at Liverpool RO yesterday morning and I had a quick look at Our Lady of Reconciliation baptisms for 1867 and ear4ly 1868. It was a quick look at that was over 2 baptism books, the writing was not always clear and on my quick look I couldn't see Cahill but it could have been there. It is quite time consuming process going through the registers.

I have a few suggestions to make. Why not order the most likely birth certificate stating who the parents are and then only part of your money would be taken. Depending on were your nearest LDS centre is get them to order the baptism registers on film for the years you want and then you can go through them carefully and slowly. I was in a hurry as I had to get somewhere else - you should have seen me charging down the platform with my walker to catch the train!

I would contact Liverpool RO and find out exactly what Clarence records they have and if they'd be prepared to have a quick look for you. For him to have been sent to Clarence he must have appeared in court probably the Magistrates Court or it's forerunner was that the Police Courts? This might have been reported in the paper however the only on line paper is the one Mary was talking about but there are other local papers but without a date to look it up it's a pretty impossible task.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[MaryA]

Why not order the most likely birth certificate stating who the parents are and then only part of your money would be taken.

If you intend to order a birth certificate I would suggest in the circumstances that you contact the Liverpool Register Office rather than the GRO, if you quote parents to them and give the likely date, they usually prove very helpful, may even check a year or two either side, and if they don't find the entry you need may well refund your money in full.

http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/registrars_office/index.asp

[alan donougher]

Again my thanks to Hilary and Mary for sound advice. I will follow your links.
Alan

[jan44]

You might have better luck with the records of The Catholic Reformatory
Association.

They are at Liverpool RO under RefNo 364 CAT

Title Records of the Liverpool Catholic Reformatory Association.
Date 1854-1946

The records are extensive so I couldn't paste the whole list on here.

I found this on the National Archives website.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/ ... -1-1#6-1-1

Jan

[MaryA]

This would be better than pasting Jan

Record Office Search Page enter the words 'catholic reformatory association'

[jan44]

Thanks Mary,

OT How do you do that? just write that and then get the link to it?

I also found some info on the Port Cities website.

http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.ph ... pterId=452

Jan