Liverpool McKay's

[Kingfisher]

Hi
I'm a new member, and have plotted my family tree back to my g/g/grandfather, William McKay (born Scotland 1817): however, on the 1851 Liverpool census where the family were living, they were spelling their name MacKay. I have William's marriage cert (Chester 1849), to Eliza Jones, of Gresford North Wales, which just names his father as Robert.

On Scotlands people I found a Robert MacKay and Janet Davidson, who produced son, born in Caithness, on the 4th December 1817, and christened him William on 23rd December 1817.

I also have William's death cert (Liverpool 1871). My problem is that, I can't find any verification of my g/g/granpappy's actual date of birth, here in Liverpool!

Unless I can find some official record of William's actual D.O.B, here in the Liverpool/Chester area, I can't say, with absolute certainty, that the boy child born in Scotland on 4th Dec 1817 is really William McKay, my g/g/grandfather; and, therefore, I have a "match"!

Can anyone suggest where I might find a date of birth for William McKay, in the Liverpool / Chester area, or anywhere else for that matter!

(NB, I notice that ,on his death cert, dated 28th Nov 1871, he is stated as being 54 years old, at death; therefore, as he was born in 1817, he can not yet have had a birthday in 1871, the year that he died! This strongly suggests that he might well have been born in the December of 1817.) Any thoughts anyone?)
Best
Ian

[CaroleW]

Hi

Sorry - there is absolutely no way you are going to find verification of his actual birth date outside of Scotland unless you are lucky enough to find a descendant who has a copy of his birth entry from the parish register

I am assuming that the 1851/61/71 censuses just show his birthplace as Scotland and not a specific county within Scotland

If so - this makes it more difficult as McKay/MacKay was not an uncommon surname in Scotland and without knowing exactly which county he came from it would be guesswork as to who the correct parents were

The Scottish 1841 has 42 entries for a William McKay b 1816-1818 but none link to a Robert. However - by 1841 William had probably left home

Were either of the witnesses on the 1849 marriage cert surname McKay

NB, I notice that ,on his death cert, dated 28th Nov 1871, he is stated as being 54 years old, at death; therefore, as he was born in 1817, he can not yet have had a birthday in 1871, the year that he died! This strongly suggests that he might well have been born in the December of 1817.) Any thoughts anyone?)

IF - he was born in December 1817 - he would have been 53yrs old in November 1871 - not 54

If he was 54 when he died - it suggests he was born between December 1816 and November 1817

[Tina]

Hi and welcome.

Carol in 1851 he's transcribed as Wm 34 born 1817 Scotland.
Warehouse porter in Colquitt Terr, St Geo's district.
His wife is 23yrs bn Gresford Denbigh and little John Robt is 4mnths old also bn Gresford.
They have a visitor Wm Jones 34 married shoemaker bn Gresford perhaps Eliza's brother?
They must have just moved to Lpool.

1861 transcribed as Mc space Kay. Error sent to Anc# asking them to remove the space. Makes it so difficult to trace people.
In this census & 1871 Wm listed as born Scotland so no help there...

Did the marriage cert give an occupation for father Robert or deceased?
I'm guessing Wm would have been full age.
If he'd been married before it would have said widower?

1841 may have some clues?
What was he doing in Chester at time of marriage??

Cheers

Tina

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Using the couple of small clues that you may have - ie whether the father's occupation was given on the marriage certificate and also whether he was noted as deceased - another possibility is to search for a Will for him, just maybe his son would be mentioned. It's not going to be a cheap search I wouldn't think.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=554&407

I hope the age on the death certificate is accurate as it might help you with his birth, but don't forget that age at death is only as accurate as the person who registers knows - or guesses!

[Kingfisher]

Hi ladies
Thanks for your kind input on the above; on his marriage cert, my g/g/ grandfather's occupation, was given as "Gentleman's servant"; the marriage cert only shows him being "of age", and simply gives his father's name and occupation as Robert McKay, Labourer: neither of the witnesses were named Mckay, they were a Mary and John Neild.

When William died, at No 6 Molyneux Street, in Liverpool, on 28/11/1871, my g/g/grandmother, Eliza McKay,(nee jones), was present at his death; so, I'm pretty sure that after being married to him for 22 years, she would have known how old he was!

Also, on the 1851 census, you are correct Tina, about the visitor on the night of the census, William Jones: he was my g/g/grandmother Eliza's brother. Sometime between the date of their marriage, 13th July 1849, and the date of the next census in 1851, William, Eliza and baby John Robert, had moved from Cheshter/Gresford, North Wales, to Liverpool.

Maybe my math isn't as good as it should be; but surely, if William was the boy born on 4th December, in Reay Caithness, to Robert and Janet MacKay, then in November 1871, the date he died, he must have been 54 years old: and, not as Carole says 53 years old! Anyway, that's what the registrar seems to have thought.

Once again, I'd like to thank MaryA, Tina, and Carole W for your kind assistance, and any further help anyone might be able to offer.

Best
Ian McKay MA.

[MaryA]

I'm pretty sure that after being married to him for 22 years, she would have known how old he was!

It's not always the case and if it were me, I would keep an open mind. How common was it that ages changed by as much as 5 or more years from one census to the next, that was often because people weren't always literate.

[Kingfisher]

Hi Mary
I take your point, however, it would not seem to be the case here, as all the census returns from the begining, to William's death, agree that he was "born Scotland 1817", but thanks for your help.
Best
Ian

[Tina]

"Gentleman's Servant" is interesting.
Perhaps one of the Landed Gentry from Ches were up in Scotland & William came back with them??

I've looked in 1841 Scotland, just too many of them, sorry.

Tina