Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Just found that brick wall I have heard so much about. I have found family going back to the 1891 census, these include John Evans age 41 (head) his wife Ellen Evans 36, daughter Ann Evans 16 and son John Evans 14. in this census they all live in Liverpool and John sen, Ann and John jn where all born in Liverpool so have no reason to think they lived anywhere else

I can not find them before the before this census can anyone help please

Can you please give the references for them in the 1901 and 1891 censuses, also the details - addresses, father's names and occupations and witnesses - from their marriage certificate.

1891?
6 Prince Edwin Street, 8 Court
RG12; Piece: 2944; Folio 109; Page 31
John Evans 41 b Liverpool, Seaman
Ellen Evans 36 b Bangor
Ann Evans 16 b Liverpool
John Evans 14 b Liverpool
Lydia Evans 11 b Liverpool
Robert Evans 5 b Liverpool
Daniel Evans 2 b Liverpool
Margaret Williams 65 visitor b Bangor

if Margaret Williams is Ellen's mother then Ellen could be John's second wife?

Lancs Bmd has a marriage in 1884

EVANS John WILLIAMS Ellen Liverpool, St. Peter Liverpool 2122LP/77/269 - Dec quarter

Do you have any borth certs for any children? Could they be Ellen's children not John's?

Simone x

Have now found this possible couple. Says Bangor as birthplace for John and Ellen but this has been crossed out on the image, so not sure Also no children with them

RG11; Piece: 3612; Folio: 33; Page: 14
30 !/2 Plumbe Street
James Quigley 70
Catherine Quigley 56
Ann Quigley 18
Chas. Stewart 40
Maria Stewart 32
Elizabeth Stewart 12
Catherine Stewart 9
Mary Stewart 7
Henrietta Stewart
Malachi Ball 22
John Jones 66
Sarah Jones 50
John Evans 30 Seaman b Bangor
Ellen Evans 28 b Bangor
Martin Moran 27
Mary Moran 25
I.Or J. Moran


take it you know about this one as you have asked about Plumbe Street n an earlier post?

hmmm will wait and see if you have marriage cert for them or birth's of children

Simone x

Hi Evans11,
If the Evans family that Simone found in the 1891 is the correct one, is it possible you can't find them in earlier censuses because you are searching for John Evans? If he was a seaman/mariner he could well have been away when the census was taken. I think searching for his wife, and even the older children for the 1881, would be productive.

Dickiesam

The family Simone found is mine. I have found Ellen and John in the 1911 census saying they had been married for 39 years I.e.1872, I found one for 1873 and sent for the cert but John's fathers name is not the same as the one I have which I think is right.

The 1881 one Simone found, thanks, states John & Ellen Evans as lodges but can not be sure if they are the same ones, if they are married then or not given Ellen Evans's maiden was Evans as it says on the birth cert for her son Robert.

Thank you all for your help once again

Have now found this possible couple. Says Bangor as birthplace for John and Ellen but this has been crossed out on the image, so not sure

[from Simone].

That big 'X' on the place of origin on the 1881 census page is a typical enumeration checker/counter mark. There's another one further up. Don't think it's meant to query Bangor. Those checkers usually put a broad pen stroke through the age as well!

Dickiesam

Hi

Brian tells me that he has birth cert for son Robert that states father John Evans and mother Ellen maiden name Evans..

found a couple of marriages but notice from previous reply on this thread that Brian may have checked the 1873 out

There are 2 marriages on Lancs BMD...

1873 jun q Liverpool 8b 225
EVANS John EVANS Ellen Liverpool, St. Paul Liverpool 2120LP/6/316


1882 sep q Liverpool 8b 87 probably too late this one...
EVANS John EVANS Ellen Liverpool, St. Michael in the City Liverpool 2054LP/9/420

Brian.. who did the 1873 marriage have down as father's?

Marriages Jun 1863
EVANS Ellen Bangor 11b 1003
EVANS John Bangor 11b 1003

Marriages Dec 1864
Evans Ellen Connor W Derby 8b 904
Evans John W Derby 8b 904


such common names aren't they


Simone x

Simone, you have been more of a help than you know. I have the marriage cert for Evans John & Evans Ellen from 1873 but because the father of John did not match the name I had I discarded it. However after being on her and looking at all the info I have it now looks like it is the right one.

On the cert John’s father is William and he is a mariner, as is John. The infor I had for John’s father was he was a wheelmaker which did not sound right, mariner fits better given what John went onto do. Ellen’s father is called Daniel but it is very difficult to read, but he also was a mariner. I am still very new at this so I really do appreciate everyone’s help

The names are very common, every second person is called Evans and when the maiden name is also Evans, just give up

cheers

brian

Hi Brian

yes I think the mariner sounds more likely

here is I think Ellen with her family in 1861, ... maternal grandparents there too, also Margaret Williams from 1891

RG09 Piece:4350 Folio:97 Page:25
23 Chapel Street, Bangor

PRICE, Hugh Head Married M 72 1789 Tanner Carnarvon Pwllheli
PRICE, Mary Wife Married F 72 1789 Carnarvon Pwllheli
WILLIAMS, Margaret Daughter Married F 34 1827 Mariners Wife
Carnarvon Pwllheli
EVANS, Daniel Son In Law Married M 30 1831 Mariner Carnarvon Dolbenmaen
EVANS, Sarah Daughter Married F 27 1834 Mariners Wife Carnarvon Bangor
EVANS, Ellen Granddaughter F 6 1855 Carnarvon Bangor
EVANS, Sarah A Granddaughter F 4 1857 Liverpool Lancashire
EVANS, Elizabeth Granddaughter F 2 1859 Carnarvon Bangor
EVANS, John R Grandson M 0 (10D) 1861 Carnarvon Bangor
ROBERTS, Thomas Boarder Unmarried M 25 1836 Nail Manufacturer
Denbigh

1871
RG10 Piece:5728 Folio:12 Page:17
Garden Street, Bangor


EVANS, Daniel Head M 40 1831 Merionethshire seaman
EVANS, Laura Wife F 37 1834 Caernarvonshire (2nd wife..or listed wrong?)
EVANS, Ellen Daughter F 16 1855 Caernarvonshire
EVANS, Elizabeth Daughter F 12 1859 Caernarvonshire
EVANS, John R Son M 10 1861 Caernarvonshire
EVANS, Daniel Son M 7 1864 Caernarvonshire
PRICE, Mary Mother-In-Law F 84 1787 Caernarvonshire

got to go now,, will look for John later... unless someone else finds them first

Simone x

Hi Brian

who were the witnesses on the marriage?

Simone x

poss for John?

1851 wales
HO107 Piece 2513 Folio 98 Page 7
Tanygraig, Glan Don Terrace, Abererch, Pwllheli

EVANS, William Head Married M 41 1810 Mariner
Llanon Carnarvonshire
EVANS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 38 1813 Pwllheli
Carnarvonshire
EVANS, Elinor Daughter F 11 1840 Pwllheli
EVANS, Mary Daughter F 8 1843 Pwllheli
EVANS, Elizabeth Daughter F 5 1846 Pwllheli
EVANS, Griffith Son M 3 1848 Pwllheli
EVANS, John Son M 1 1850 Pwllheli

1861 for William?
aboard Vessel the 'Mary Ann' in dock
RG9; Piece: 4501; Folio: 69; Page:
Name Age
Williams Evans 59 master
Griffith Evans 14 Boy

not sure where Elizabeth and children are

not definite right family bit only one I can tie up with dad William a mariner at the moment

Simone x

hmmm.. could this be John in 1861


Aboard vessel 'Zebra' in Falmouth Harbour

RG9; Piece: 4495; Folio: 95;
John Evans 15 Boy

1871 census
RG10; Piece: 5726; Folio: 164;
Aboard vessel 'Amity' at Bangor
John Evans 20


maybe

Simone x

(from Brian
witnesses at marriage are Emmanual Rosemary and Mary Ann Fearny?)

1881 census
RG11; Piece: 3612; Folio: 12; Page: 17
6 House 6 Court, Ray Street, Liverpool
Emanul Rosemary 28 sailmaker b Liverpool
Margaret Rosemary 29 b Liverpool
Mary C. Rosemary 3
Christopher Rosemary
Richard Williams 56 b Wales

from Lancs Bmd
marriage 1875
Jun q 8b 193

ROSEMERY Emanuel A WILLIAMS Margaret Liverpool, Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne Liverpool 2053LP/60/439


so could Richard Williams be connected to Margaret Rosemary nee Williams, father maybe.

also could there be a connection to Ellen Evans aunt MargaretWilliams... re 1861 census previously listed.

(btw Brian - John and Ellen named a child Daniel which adds to weight of correct marriage cert for 1873 naming her father as Daniel.)


various spellings of Fearney and couple of possibles on census... go to go now... and in work tomorrow .. so may not et to do more at the mo

c u later

Simone x

Thank you all for your help, the info given has provided a real kick start. and sorry for not understanding all the rules of the forum.

Brian