Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I sent for the birth cert of my g grandfather John Rimmer b.12 feb 1874, northmeols/southport parents listed as William Rimmer and Ellen Johnson which by my records was correct. so I sent for william and ellens marriage cert. boy did I have a surprise... church record reads thus.
Parish Record of Marriage:
15.06.1872
William Rimmer X 23, Bach, Fisherman, Marshside; father William, Fisherman
Ellen Johnson, X 28, Spinster, Marshside; father John Ball, Labourer
Married by Charles F Holt, Curate, after Banns
Wit: James X Rimmer and Mary Rimmer
the marriage cert reads like this
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w126 ... wardMC.jpg
the only christening I can find for Ellen is as Howard
FreeBMD Birth Index,
Name: Ellen Howard
1844 Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Ormskirk
Volume: 21 Page: 595

Park Entries: ID: I30511 Name: Ellen HOWARD **********: F Birth: in Crossens, North Meols, Lancashire, England Christening: 17 JUN 1844 St. Cuthberts, North Meols, Lancashire, England daughter of Thomas & Jane Howard Crossens LabourerPage:
Father: Thomas HOWARD b: in Crossens, North Meols, Lancashire, England c: 5 AUG 1810 in St. Cuthberts, North Meols, Lancashire, England Mother: Jane AINSCOW b: in Crossens, North Meols, Lancashire, England c: 7 JUN 1812 in St. Cuthberts, North Meols, Lancashire, England Sources: Type: Vital Record Title: Parish registers for North Meols 1594-1921 Place: Lancashire Record Office, Preston, England Media: microfilm Location: family history library Author: Church of England. Parish Church of North Meols (Lancashire)

so which record is right...parish or state and what about the different fathers. cannot find her in 1871 as either howard or johnson so who are her real parents? any help would be appreciated.

Is there any chance the Banns still exist?

I wonder if you have the certificate for the wrong marriage?

The IGI has the marriage of William RIMMER and Ellen JOHNSON
08 April 1869 Hesketh With Becconsall, Lancashire

My immediate thought was that Ellen Johnson was the illegitimate daughter of an unknown Johnson who had a know relationship with a John Ball. Possibly the Johnson then married John Ball.

I looked for an Ellen Johnson in 1851 hopefully with either her mother or in a Ball family. The only one I could find was with grandparents

1851 Marshside
John Johnson H M 63
Betty wife 51
Richard 36
Betty 33
Ellen 9 grandaughter
Betty grandaughter 4
all bn North Meols

If this is her she is perhaps a little older than she said!

I couldn't find Ellen in 1861 or 1871 it was only a quick look. I found 3 possible birth registration for an Ellen Johnson
March 1842 Ormskirk vol 21 p559

Sept 1842 Ormskirk vol 21 492

Mar 1843 Ormskirk vol 21 p 548

I also found a marriage of Jane JOHNSON to John BALL 1849 at Southport Holy Trinity. Could this he useful.

I know none of the Ellen's I found are in the Park database but she may have had her child christened elsewhere such as Holy Trinity or even Christchurch or if it was illegitimate not at all. I am confused as to why you think she's a Howard as you have the birth and marriage saying Ellen Johnson.

Hilary
Ed Officer

I had a person whose ggggrandfather and mine are the same person and still living in southport helping me as well as joyce O who all got me turned around with different parents for this lady. just trying to sort it all out and find her rightfull parents.....what you ave found for me may be the right direction, I will check out the marriage of jane to john ball as this seems very likely and also william to Ellen Johnson....I just knew I had it wrong but could find no other marriage that fit. as you may or not know rimmers are a dime a dozen in southport and its easy to get the wrong one

Yup I know about Rimmers - I have them but mine are from Formby to Birkdale. I live in Birkdale near St James Church where my great grandfather was the first baby to be christened in 1857!!

The William and Ellen in Hesketh with Beconsall are living there in 1871 and have a son John aged 1.

Hilary
Ed Officer