Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello everyone,
I am new to the forum and wondered if I am at the right place to ask for help in trying to trace my grandad Robert Henry PARRY. I can't even find him on ancestry because I don't know much about him prior to 1914 but what I do know is this.
He was in the army, KORLR 8244, from 1904 - 17 when he was discharged from wounds and went to Druids Cross Hospital until at least 1923. I have photo and WW1 artifacts of his.
In 1914 he wrote to Emma Harding at 29 Chelsea Road, Litherland.
He married twice 1916 to Emma Harding and 1931 to step gran Amy Ainsworth.
In 1918 he wrote to the war office giving his address as 25 Kipling Street Bootle, Liverpool.
I know his name is RH PARRY and he died aged 70 at 59 Empire Road Litherland. I have D.Cert and grave deed. He lived at this address from at least 1928-55.
On his first marriage cert he names his father as Robert PARRY, soldier desceased. On the second cert he is Robert Henry PARRY , soldier British Army deceased.
He and Emma had 3 children, Lilian 1916,Robert 1921, and my mum Ivy 1923 all born in litherland.
If I have missed anything, please ask. I ordered a birth cert for him but don't know why as it is not conclusive.
He went to war with his best friend JOSEPH J IRVINE ?
Any help or guidance will be gratefully received
Thankyou so much
Ann

You say he was 70 when he died. When did he die? This would give an approximate birth date. Also on either of his marriage certificates is an age given?

So if I've understood we are looking for a Robert Henry Parry born ???? son of Robert Parry a soldier who was deceased by 1916.

Ed Officer

Hi and welcome to the forum.

My first question is - who registered his death? Was it a person who was likely to know his birth date? Although the actual date of birth was inserted in death certificates post 1969, it all depended on whether the informant actually knew it, however, the age at death was given on death certificates for many years before that, so it could be a good guideline.

Secondly, when ordering the birth certificate, have you used the reference checking facility whereby you can state that you want the certificate only if the father's name was Robert.

Is there anybody in the family who knew whether Robert was born in the Bootle area, giving "soldier" for his father's occupation makes it sound as if he was a professional soldier rather than just joining up in times of conflict. This might mean that he was born wherever the family was based at the time, assuming his wife was with him.

His Medal Card is on Ancestry and says he served from 18 May 1904 to 19 December 1917. It also says he was Royal Lancashire Regiment.

I would add to Mary's questions with who were the witnesses on his two marriages?

Ed Officer

Hi both, thankyou for your prompt replys,
Sorry I knew I'd forget something. In reply to Ed Officer first,
Robert Henry PARRY died 14 Jan 1955 32 Chelsea Road witness is his 2nd wife Amy who died in 1984.
1st marriage to Emma Harding was 29 Jan 1916 age 27 witnesses were Emma's Sister and husband Henrietta and John Slater
2nd marriage to Amy Ainsworth was 18 July 1931 age 46 the witnesses are what looks like George and Ida Parker I have no idea who these people are.
I have his medal card and have been in touch with the Royal Lancasters museum but they have no previous about him.
Phew....Will reply to Mary now.
Ann

Is this worth thinking about?

British Army WWI Pension Record
No. TS8322
Shoeing Smith pay 5/- a day
Robert Henry Parry
42 Washington Street, Bootle, Lancs
British Subject
Age 26 years
Trade - Horse Shoer
Married - Yes
Never served in any branch of his majesty's forces
Willing to be vaccinated
Willing to be enlisted for General Service
Received Notice from L/Cpl Lovelady, Kings
Oath taken at Seaforth on 18th July, 1915
Wife Gladys May Mitchell, married on 25.12.1912 St Matthew, Bootle
Children Gladys Louisa 8.1.14 West Derby and Thelma (or Shelma) 2.6.15

This seems very coincidental if there are two Robert Henry Parry's both living close to the area in Bootle. Could it be that your Robert did an extra couple of years service.

Can't find Washington Street, but Washington Parade is no more than a spit away from both Kipling Street and Chelsea Road.

If this isn't him, then there should be a Pension Record anyway.

The Regimental number for Robert Henry is 8244

Ed Officer

Education Officer wrote:The Regimental number for Robert Henry is 8244

Ed Officer

Yes but does that cover the whole of his service or could he have switched Regiments? was that allowed?

Hi

Washington Street in 1911 has no Parry's

Simone x

Didn't think so, the marriage was a year later.

Wow once you get going theres no stopping you is there, thankfully for the likes of me. sorry I have been ringing phone numbers trying to find my brother who I haven't seen or spoken to for at least 15 years he may be able to help but I am at a loss as to how to find him only I live in Berwick Upon Tweed and he still lives in Leicester!!!
Anyway where was I,
Mary A I don't think the RH PARRY you have is the right one as his wife and children don't fit into my family at all.
Yes Robert Parry Senior died prior to 1916.
I don't know where Robert junior was born but I do remember mum having a sash from the Orange Order that apparently belonged to him, I tried to e-mail the Liverpool branch but I don't think it got through either that or they didn't want to reply.
Ann

The dates are such that if anything happened to the earlier family, the later ones may not have been aware of them. It's probably totally unconnected though.

The following details are courtesy of our forum member Jan who found the information on the Liverpool Records Office Website
Ref No 296 MLI/10/5
Title Copy annual returns to the Grand Lodge of England
Date Dec 1931-Oct 1967
Description Includes date of membership, name, address and profession of member and fees paid
Extent 1 volume
Access Conditions Closed until 1/1/2043 under the Data Protection Act

Each lodge was responsible for the keeping of their own records, unless you knew which Branch he belonged to you may not have much luck.

Thanks for that about the lodge, I don't know which lodge he belonged to.So I think that one is out for now.
Although I am not sure about this but the 1884 birth cert I have says Roberts father is Henry Parry,a Carter, mother Annie seddow, address 14 Grove Place.
I hold on to this as my friend was looking for her great grandfather George Walter Rogers only to discover his first name was in fact Walter!!

Also all my mums brothers and sisters were baptised at St Leonards church, Bootle. and St Andrews, Litherland. Proberbly not relavant though.
As far as I am aware Aunt Lilian Smith lived and died in Liverpool and she had family I am going to look to see when she died as she may have a obituary in a newspaper I think it was in the 1990's.
Ann

Washington St became W. Parade - close to old Marsh Lane & Strand Station, now Bootle New Strand or something similar.

Hi Ann,

I looked in the 1938 directory and at 59 Empire Road was a John Cardus - Labourer.

Only the head of the household is listed in the directories, maybe grandad was a lodger at 59.

I will look at the other addresses you have given in earlier years (1914 is the nearest) and see if anything comes up.

Jan

Ann,

I found this in the 1891 census, as you mentioned an address you have on a birth cert for Grove Place

RG12 2963 folio 102 page 26

13 Grove Place Kirkdale.

Robert Parry Head Married age 52 Carter born Liverpool
Mary do wife age 39 bn L,pool
Robert H do son age 7 L,pool

I have found on some soldiers records that the birth years are wrong, I was helping someone else and in some documents it gave his birth year as 1878, and searched everything, the name wasn't easy being Jones! Anyway it turned out that the actual birth year was 1876 and the person I was helping managed to get his relatives birth cert after writing to the records office in Wales where his relative was born.

Jan

Re the regimental number - I took it from his medal card which gave his service dates from 1904 - 1917 so I reckon he only had one number. The cards usually give any other numbers the man had.

I like the onein Grove Place it seems to tie in. I wonder why he said his father was a soldier?

Ed Officer

Hi Jan,
How intriging about 59 Empire Road.
In 1914 Grandad wrires to Emma Harding his then girlfriend at 29 Chelsea Road, when they marry in 1916 the same address is given for both of them but both their parents are deceased ?
1918 they live at 25 Kipling Street.
1928 it is 59 Empire Road because Robert bought a grave plot and gave this address on it and also Emma died there.
Oops I made a mistake in 1955 Robert died at 32 Chelsea Road
in 1947 my sister(deceased) died at 32 Chelsea Road
1943 my other sister(deceased)died at 32 Chelsea Road
Seems Chelsea Road is the main address an I d remeber visiting Chelsea Road when I was very young 1950's.
One more snippet I have found. On grandmas death cert it gives grandads occupation as match factory labourer this is 1928 and general labourer in 1942 and retired general labourer match factory in 1955.
Ann

Hi Ann,

Did you get my PM?

I had a look in 1914 and Kipling St is not listed, so can't check that out, I will have a look at Chelsea Road.

There was a Bryant and May Match factory in Litherland, I think it was Mildmay Road (more Bootle area) or I might be getting it mixed up with Johnsons the cleaners haha.

Out of interest where is grandad buried? Is there a headstone?

Jan

Ann,

The matchworks was in Linacre Road (Litherland)

I found this on the Litherland digital site.

http://www.litherland-digital.co.uk/alb ... ey1952.htm

Jan