Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by **Hilary** » 08 Nov 2009 17:00

On 24 July 1901 at Parish church of Wallasey (St Hilary)

John Dobson 41 widower insurance clerk 17 Newlands Drive Wallasey father John Dobson deceased wood salesman

married

Elizabeth Jones 28 spinster 17 Newlands Drive Wallasey George Jones Shipbuilder

witnesses George Dobson M J Jones

The address is where they then lived and as far as I know was unoccupied in the 1901 census

A notice was placed in the Echo on 26 July 1901
Dobson - Jones July 24 at Wallasey Parish Church John Dobson to Lily Jones.

The 1901 census taken on 31 March 1901 shows John aged 40 living in Anfield ( I know all about John)

1911 census taken 2 April 1911 131 wallasey Road Liscard
John Dobson H M 50 insurance clerk born Liverpool
Elziabeth Dobson wife 38 married 9 years 4 children 2 living 2 dead bn Liverpool
Dorothy Dobson daughter 7 bn Wallasey
Cyril George Dobson son 9 months bn Wallasey
Alice Dickinson 19 servant bn St Helens

John was born 21 May 1860. He strikes me as very particular with ages etc correctly giving his age 40 in 1901 on the census and 4 months later 41 at marriage. Again in 1901 he records they'd been married 9 years it was almost 10. I think it is very likely that he was as careful with his wife's age.

Based on this I think Elizabeth has to have been born in the September or December Quarter of1872 or March Quarter or 1873.

Unforunately her death certificate shows her as 83 at death on 1 April 1954 which would take her birth back a year. However I am still inclined to go with the earlier facts.

She is definitely referred to as Lily or Lil in some things but shows as Elizabeth on her marriage and my mother's birth certifciate. She buys her husband's grave as Lily.

From some photos she appears to have an elder sister is this the M J Jones? There is also possibility that Jane comes into somehwere possibly a sister?

So can anyone find me an Elizabeth or Lily Jones born second half of 1872 or beginning of 1873 in Liverpool with a father called George who is in shipbuilding and has an older sister who may be Jane or M J Jones?

Forgot to say I think George Jones was alive in 1901 as John has correctly said his father was deceased and so they would have I reckon said if Elizabeth's father was dead.

Noone seems to know anything about her. I don't remember my mother speaking of her mother and myonly aunt on this side says she knows nothing and can't remember her husband Cyril speaking of his mother or her family.

All suggestions gratefully received

Ed Officer

PS some of you will remeber us looking for her before - just hoping someone might have a brilliant suggestion.

Post by **Daisycakes** » 08 Nov 2009 19:20

Hi... I know this may seem like a very silly question

but are you certain MJ Jones is female... just a thought!

Ps my grandmother was Elizabeth Jones also but born 1884?

Ann

I

Post by **erika** » 08 Nov 2009 19:22

Hi Ed Officer

I've looking at the 1881 census without any success

Have you any details about George Jones, dob, wife's name etc?

There are loads of Elizabeth Jones on FreeBMD, births between the dates you gave

Have you ever sent for any certs, or just couldn't face the thought of ploughing through them all?

Would love to be able to help you solve this mystery, brickwalls are so frustrating!

Cheers
Erika

Post by **Daisycakes** » 08 Nov 2009 19:36

Me again... 1871 census rg10/3762 all born Liverpool

George Jones 39 Boilermaker
Mary 38
Jane 12
Hannah 10
Alice 8
William 4
Elizabeth 6 months

All of the occupations on this street are mariners etc

Could this be your family given that Jane is 12 years old??

Ann

Post by **Hilary** » 08 Nov 2009 19:36

Hi Erika and Ann

Thanks for replying

No I don't know if M J Jones is a male or female it could be Michael John Jones I've no idea. I just am fairly sure she has a sister. On a family tree done in the 1960s I have a line coming from Elizabeth with Jane on it could be mother or sister don't know.

I know nothing about George either shipbuilder I reckon could mean anyone in a ship yard.

The best 1891 census I've ever found is at RG12 2903 144 56
72 CrameR sTREET
George Jones H M 58 boiler maker
Mary wife 56
William J son 21 foundry labourer
Mary F daughter 26 cigar maker
Elizabeth daughter 18 at home
all bn Liverpool

BUT George is dead in 1901 and could a boiler maker be described as a shipbuilder?

No I've never sent for a certificate there are just too many!!

Thanks for looking

Ed Officer

Post by **Daisycakes** » 08 Nov 2009 19:48

That 1891 family you have is I feel sure the same family I have given you for 1871 living in Scotland Road... ??

Ann

Post by **erika** » 08 Nov 2009 19:58

Still can't find the family you seem to have found in the 1881

Also bit confused, thought George was alive in 1901 because he wasn't down as deceased on marriage cert!

Cheers
Erika

Post by **MaryA** » 08 Nov 2009 20:12

Removed the incorrect census to save confusion

Post by **Daisycakes** » 08 Nov 2009 20:13

erika wrote:Still can't find the family you seem to have found in the 1881

Also bit confused, thought George was alive in 1901 because he wasn't down as deceased on marriage cert!

Cheers
Erika

Hi Erika the family Ed has in 1891 I found in 1871 and now 1861.. I dont think he has them in 1881 still looking

Ann

Post by **MaryA** » 08 Nov 2009 20:16

DAISYCAKES wrote: I dont think he has them in 1881

He?

Post by **Hilary** » 08 Nov 2009 20:20

I thought George should be alive in 1901 as they don't say deceased but who knows

I'm fascinated that you've come up with the same family in 1871 as I have in the 1891 census could this be great minds thinking alike.

The Elizabeth C Jones Mary has found marries I believe in 1891 to David Williams in Toxteth park area.

Uhm actually I'm a she - Hilary the Society's Education Officer!

Can't thank you enough for trying to knock down my brick wall - I've been tapping away at it since 2000. I've sent an email to Liverpool Cemeteries asking how I find out who else is in the grave of Elizabeth's husband John Dobson. I'm not even sure if Elizabeth is there as she died in Co Durham. Just thought maybe the sister of the photo is in the grave!!

Hilary
Ed Oficer

Post by **Daisycakes** » 08 Nov 2009 20:22

Dya know what I have them in 1881 and guess what Mary Jane is there and is 32 !!!!!! rg11/3600 ..This is my first attempt at helping and I'll be so chuffed if its Ed's family

Ann

Post by **MaryA** » 08 Nov 2009 20:24

Oh come on then Ann, we'll wait for you to do the honour of transcribing it!!

Post by **Daisycakes** » 08 Nov 2009 20:24

MaryA wrote:
DAISYCAKES wrote: I dont think he has them in 1881
He?

OOOOOOOOOOOOPS

Post by **Hilary** » 08 Nov 2009 20:25

I think this is them in 1881 RG11 3600 107 16
241 Atholl St Shared house
George Jones H M 49 boiler maker
Mary wife 48
Mary Jane daughter 22 cigar maker
Hannah daughter 20
William 13
Elizabeth 10
all bn Liverpool

Now where are they in 1901?
Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **Daisycakes** » 08 Nov 2009 20:26

MaryA wrote:Oh come on then Ann, we'll wait for you to do the honour of transcribing it!!

Do I have to i'm a bit slow on the typing

Post by **Hilary** » 08 Nov 2009 20:32

Brilliant Daisy Cakes I think we've got them or am I being too hopeful!

I wonder where they are in 1901?

I'm getting really excited.
Hilary

Post by **MaryA** » 08 Nov 2009 20:42

15 Cupid Street, South Everton
Mary Jones Boarder Wid 69 Liverpool
Mary J Jones Boarder S 50 Cigar Maker "
Elizabeth Jones S 29 Restaurant Cashier "
RG13; Piece: 3486; Folio: 77; Page: 34.

Can I take a bow with Ann?

Post by **Daisycakes** » 08 Nov 2009 20:47

Me again it has to be them!!!!!!!!!

Mary you have helped me so often in the past (( Charles William Taylor and RD455 numbers and I am still searching

)) you take the bow please.I am so chuffed at my first attempt to put something back into this great forum

Ann

Post by **MaryA** » 08 Nov 2009 20:49

Come on Ed Off!! Get your *** into gear and check this post please we're waiting for you

We're sharing this bow Ann, both of us

well all of us really!