Why is this family so hard to find???

Post by **greann** » 01 Nov 2009 14:13

Hi,
I have been searching for information on Evelyn Thompson and her children for quite some time now. Without much luck.
What I do know is that she had a son - David Gerard Thompson born 22 November, 1902 136 Jubilee Drive, West Derby Western, County Liverpool. Father is listed as David Thompson - marine engineer. The mother is listed as Evelyn Elizabth Thompson formerly Johnson. I find her in the 1911 census with son Gerard and daughter Jane Francis. (no mention of father), but it says she has been married for 11 years. Can't find a marriage. The address that is listed is 13 Sunnyside, Liverpool and she is listed as running a bording house.
I have the certificate for David Gerard, but cannot find the birth for Jane Francis (brn abt 1900)
The strange part is that these two children came to Canada under the name "Harcourt".
I have no information on Evelyn
I sure hope someone can shed some light on this for me. Any help wouldd be greatfully appreciated.
Greann

Post by **dickiesam** » 01 Nov 2009 14:37

Hi,
A couple of questions to help us find her! You say you have her in the 1911? What age is she on that census? And, when did the two children enter Canada using the name Harcourt? Lastly, how do you know the children changed their surname?

If the father was a marine engineer, he may well have been at sea on the night of the 1911 census, accounting for his absence from it.

Dickiesam

Post by **simone** » 01 Nov 2009 14:51

Hi Greann & Dickiesam

She is listed in 1911 as age 29, daughter Jane age 10, and son Gerard age 7. All 3 of them were born London

there are ditto marks below London for the childrens' birthplace

But you have a birth cert for David Gerard Thompson born West Derby

Also using just name Gerard on 1911 census.

Simone x

Post by **dickiesam** » 01 Nov 2009 15:28

Thanks for that Simone. Gives us something to work on.
But, still can't find a Thompson - Johnson marriage in England and Wales between 1897 and 1902.

Also, Evelyn has her son Gerard as born in London on the 1911 yet Greann has evidence that he was born in Liverpool. Greann has the birth cert I think, so it could be a mistake?

Dickiesam

Post by **greann** » 01 Nov 2009 15:28

Hi Dickiesam,
Sorry It's a long and drawn out story............so if you have the time, make a cup of tea before you read this

I'll start with what I absolutely do know.
David Gerard Thompson is my husband's grandfather. Only he knew him as David Harcourt. A very secretive man!!! The family knew nothing about him and he refused to talk about his early life.
He came to Canada 11/16/22 then tried to get into the US but was debarred for criminal perjury

he lists his mother as Evelyn.
He marries in Canada 1924 listing his mother as Evelyn Johnson father James Harcourt.
We knew his birthdate and location, so that is how I found his birth record with "real name".
On ship list he lists his occupation as "sparks operator" On his marriage record he was a radio manufacture.
Family rumour - he had a sister (who nobody met) who married a doctor from Napanee, Ontario, Canada. I went to the local records office and sure enough. Found a newspaper clipping - Jeanette F. Harcourt marries Beverley Rolf Simpson in Liverpool 1919.
She also tried to get into the US but was also debarred for criminal purjury. STRANGE!!!???? I looked closer at David Gerards marriage record and sure enough she was listed as a witness.
I had assumed that Jeanette was not her real name.
Confirmed in the 1911 census.
On this census their mother Evelyn is 29 years, born about 1882 She says they were all born in London!!??? Why I don't know
It's all very strange as his sister disapears after 1924. David was very well educated and spoke 3 different languages. Rumour - sent away to bording schools in France.
Wew.... I hope I didn't put anyone to sleep!!

and I hope I answered all the questions.
Ann

Post by **Hilary** » 01 Nov 2009 16:05

From www.freebmd.org.uk

Birth Registration
Jane Frances Thompson March Quarter 1900 West Derby Registration district volume 8b page 716.

Ed Officer

Post by **greann** » 01 Nov 2009 16:09

Thank you.....that's probably her. I will send for the document.
Ann

Post by **Tina** » 02 Nov 2009 07:14

Hi Ann
Thanks for sharing your story, I love reading the intrigue in family trees. Writers couldn't dream it up

I'm of no help but did have a chuckle when I found a Janet V Harcourt in 1881 census, lecturer in Chemistry with an M.A.
She's one smart girl is Janet, she's only 1 year old

As for criminal perjury? Tax dodging?

All the best with your search Ann.

Tina

Post by **northmeols** » 02 Nov 2009 13:05

just a foot note for you... Criminal Perjury for entry into USA is placed on your application if you give another name, age, date/place of birth or parent other than your real one, without having a legal change of name document. you need to have proof for everything. if they began using their step fathers name and did not put their birth name down it would have been grounds to deny them entry. get a copy of their apps from USA it should have a ton of info on them.

Post by **colette** » 02 Nov 2009 14:52

Hi the sister Jeanette F could she be the Jane F whos 10 in 1911 ??

born 1900 well she would have to be at least 18 when she married in 1919...

As no Thompson Johnson marriage can be found.. maybe they wed elsewhere.. whats the Canada connection did David Gerard go there first...then his sister tried to follow him.. as you say she married in Liverpool.. and David went there in 1922..what about mum did she go to Canada.. or remain in Liverpool ??

1911 Directory has Mrs E Thompson address 15 Sunnyside Devonshire Rd Princes Park..incase anyone was wondering were Sunnyside was.. its the name of a house.. not a street...

1900 does not have 136 Jubilee Drive listed.. so maybe empty..

Trying to find it on the 1901 at the mo..

Jane should be on the 1901 census but under what surname ????

xx

Post by **colette** » 02 Nov 2009 15:03

Hi

Didn't help as in 1901 at 136 Jubilee Drive there was

Leon Richland age 39 b Russia British Subject Cabinet Manufa..
Sarah age 27 b Russia British Subject
Dau Bertha age 3b Lpool
Dau Eva age 1 b Lpool
Brother Joe age 20 b Russia

Leon Richland married Sarah Markowitch Marriages Mar 1897 London City

I am putting these details in case there is a connection as on the 1911 you say Evelyn says she from London....

Maybe she met Sarah there and and came to Liverpool its only 1 year later David Gerard was born at that address you see...

Post by **colette** » 03 Nov 2009 10:54

Hi all

Jeannette says she is age 22 when refused enrty into USA she says she was born in London..

David G Harcourt HAS his mother down as Evelyn JOHNSTON with a T on his marriage cert.

I cant find any Jeanette Jannet etc in 1901 with a mother Evelyn..

I am still wondering if Jane F is Jeanette F.

Its looking to me that Evelyn starts out in London as she says born there in 1911 plus now Jeanette is saying she was born there.. it could be she fell pregnant young to this David Thompson they ran off to Liverpool Jeanette may have been born before they left.. and registered in Liverpool ..also Jeanette maybe a name she called Jane maybe Evelyn & David came with this couple who were at 136 Jubilee Drive as they married in London City 1897 and were in Jubilee drive by 1901..

Have you notice this Richland family name their last daughter EVA ??????

I dont think Evelyn married David Thompson ..being a Marine Enginner he would get plenty of work in Liverpool..she has another baby David in 1902..what happens to David Thompson i am not sure.

By 1911 hes not at home but could be away at sea, she is doing alright living in a nice area in Toxteth.. so whos subsidizing her ??? .she eventualy must meet someone named Harcourt.. name given on David Geds marriage is James Harcourt..proberbly doesnt marry him either.. but the kids use his name..

Its just finding her in 1891 as Johnston thats prooving hard.. thats telling me she may not be in UK..

Post by **simone** » 03 Nov 2009 11:42

Hi Col

I think Jane and Jeanette are the same too

just checked 1911 for Jubilee Drive, no luck there, it is the Roberts family.
1911 for 15 Devonshire Road has no one who seems connected
Simone x

Post by **colette** » 03 Nov 2009 12:16

Hiya

For Jeanette F to say born London..then we go find a Birth for a Jane F Liverpool.. then 1911 says born London..she could well have been birn London brought to Liverpool and registered here.

I think once Ann gets the birth cert it may shed a wee bit more light.

As i said before Evelyn was living in a nice part of Toxteth..so must have had some money from somewhere..thinking what if she married this David in Ireland or Scotland......

Cant see anything on a James Harcourt either..and where di Jeanette marry this Beverley Rolf Simpson over here ???? i cant see a marriage...

xx

Post by **MaryA** » 03 Nov 2009 12:29

Had a dabble in Scotlandspeople but no entries for a marriage for Beverley Rolf Simpson on there.

Post by **colette** » 03 Nov 2009 14:14

St. Thomas Times-Journal
St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
October through December 1928

10 November 1928
Married - Beverly Rolf Simpson, son of Dr Simpson to Fanny May 'Peggy' Loveday

Gotta be the same man who married Jeanette, so Jeanette must have died pre 1928

Also

Simpson, Beverley Rolf:
Beverley Simpson was the son of Dr. Thomas Walker Simpson of Napanee. Before 1914, he had considerable military experience. One of the first men from our county to enlist (September 20, 1914) Simpson may have considered being a career soldier, although on his Attestation paper he said "gentleman". (In 1914, this merely meant that it was unnecessary for him to work for a living.) He entered wartime active service with the rank of Lieutenant. Most of his activities were as an officer in a signal corps, with the Canadian Army and then with various units of the British Army. Altogether, he served for four and a one-half years

xx

Post by **MaryA** » 03 Nov 2009 14:46

Have we had this?

Beverley Rolf Simpson 26, Married, Canadian born, intending to stay in Canada, can read and write.
Destination Napance (Post Office) Ontario.
Occupation in country from whence you came : Br Army Officer
Intended occupation - overstamped with Ret'd Canadians, looks like "Journalist"
Religion - RC
Going to Halifax Nova Scotia, in May, 1919 on the Royal George.

WITH HIM!!!
Jeanette F Simpson 19 Single Never been in Canada before, intending to stay in Canada, can read and write.
Same destination as above, Occupation - Housewife
Intended occupation - housewife
With Husband - Ret'd Canadian
Religion R.C.

Post by **MaryA** » 03 Nov 2009 14:51

Quebec Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), Montreal (Anglican Saint Martin) 1928

Gives details of the marriage between Beverley Rolf Simpson and Fanny May Loveday, on 29th September, 1928, unfortunately although it gives her status as a spinster it doesn't say what his was.

Post by **simone** » 03 Nov 2009 15:04

Hi Mary

Ann already knows about the second marriage

http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums ... hp?t=52705

Simone

Post by **colette** » 03 Nov 2009 15:06

On his army record it says he was born in Barbados haaaaaaaaaaaaa..

His dad must have been over there..

Checked same NewsPaper site where i found the second marriage as they have deaths too nothing for Jeanette..

xx

Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Why is this family so hard to find???

Why is this family so hard to find???

Evelyn Thompson

Evelyn Thompson

Evelyn Johnson

Jubilee Drive

JOHNSTON

Evelyn Johnston

Simpson

Simpson