Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I'm really struggling to find his birth cert. 1871 has him born 1840, 1881 its 1842 and 1891 he plumps for born 1839.

Anyone any idea where to go next ? have searched BMD's
ta

Hi and welcome to the forum.

For anybody else who wishes to help
1891 81 Queens Road, South Everton
RG12; Piece: 2948; Folio 74; Page 40

1881 74 Margaret Street, Everton
RG11; Piece: 3666; Folio: 53; Page: 45

1871 74 Margaret Street Everton - transcribed Trimby
RG10; Piece: 3822; Folio: 71; Page: 36

If you continue to trace him through the earlier censuses
1861 27 Craven Street, Islington
RG9; Piece: 2691; Folio: 5; Page: 10
He is 21 (1840)

1851 42 Arwen Street, Islington - transcribed Jonnly
HO107; Piece: 2184; Folio: 183; Page: 5
He is 11 (1840)

1841 Fleet Street, St Thomas, Liverpool
HO107; Piece 562; Book: 8; Enumeration District: 46; Folio: 20; Page: 32
He is 1 year old

So it would appear that the 1881 entry of 1842 is fantasy, although it could be betwen 1839 and 1840.

All in all he is more consistent than some of our ancestors, although I don't spot him in the BMD Index, this isn't unusual in cases where there might have been a lack of money, sometimes registering the baby was low on the list of priorities, especially in the very early days of civil registration. It's probably better to try and look for a baptism.

There is a "user submitted" entry on the IGI www.familysearch.org.uk that gives details of an Edward Formby
Birth: 9 April 1836
Christening: 17 April 1836 at the R C Church,Seel Street, Liverpool
Parents Joseph and Alice

Also an entry for James Formby
Birth: 25 July 1834
Christening: 27 July 1834 R C Church,Seel Street, Liverpool

As they are not extracted entries ie transcribed from the Parish Register, I certainly wouldn't accept them without viewing for myself, but the register should be available at the Liverpool Record Office.

Do you know if the family would have been RC or C of E and so if these baptisms are likely?

It's worth bearing in mind that the registration of births did not become compulsory until many years after the introduction of Registration, so it is possible that the birth was not registered at all. I have searched the GRO Index of births from Sep 1837 until Dec 1846 and there is no Edward Formby registered.
Emeltee

I think it very likely that if you confirmed the entry in the register, it might be the right family, in which case the age he gives in censuses is very much out, unless of course his parents had a previous child named Edward who died and this one was named after him, it happens. The one born 1836 wouldn't have a birth certificate as he would have been born before Civil Registration.

The reason why I'm inclined to believe these are right is because the marriage is on the Liverpool History Projects Site Liverpool RC Marriages.

Edward Formby to Agnes Cooper at St James - 1866
The reference from the BMD indexes is Q1 1866 West Derby 8b 734.

If you go to the site I gave the link for and order the certificate it's cheaper than ordering from the GRO.

Hi Paul

I am wondering have you found the marriage of Joseph Formby & Alice Pye.

Reason i ask is Alice Orrett was married to Nathanial Pye in 1820 St James

They had

John Pye St Mary The Virgin West Derby 1821
Thomas Pye Holy Trin Wavertree 1822
Jane Pye Holy Trin Wav 1824
Nathanial Pye Holy Trin Wav 1826
Henry Pye Holy Trin Wav.. 1829
Henry Pye St Peters Lpool 1831

On the 1841 3 Pye kids are living with Joseph & Alice..

John, Jane & Henry Henry's birth year is 1833 and i think he has to be right another Henry reason is in 1857 theres an item in the Liverpool Mercury..about the death of Henry Pye aged 24..

He was living in Craven St with his Stepfather Joseph Formby.. he came home drunk and said he had been knocked down and complained of back pain.. he went to work for the next 5 days still having pain in his back..he eventualy went to the infirmary.. and died not long after of inflamation of the spine.
So being 24 in 1857 makes him born 1833.

What i am wondering is if you havent found the marriage of Joseph to Alice Pye.. then maybe they never married so Edward wouldnt have the surname Formby.. he may have Pye


xx

Good working out Colette,

Strangely in the 1851 census there are a Jane, born 1825 ish and Nathaniel Formby with the family born 1828 ish, birthplace WAVERTREE, then Margaret 13 and Edward 11, it would seem there are some clues there!

Hi Mary

Yes i think till we can confirm Joseph married Alice then we dont know if Edward was a Pye or a Formby..

Alices parents were John Orrett occ Husbandsman & Jane Bilsbarrow.. they were married in Sefton Church 1783 witneses were Thomas Sephton & Ellen Bilsbarrow.

Alice was born in Sefton in 1800..

xx

I think that matches, Alice gives Sephton or Aintree as birthplaces.

Hi

Just thinking if Alice's last child to Nathanial was Henry b 1833 she didn't waste much time geting together with Joseph if first son to him James was born 1834.

St Peters Seel St RC SEEMS TO BE THE BEST PLACE TO START.
If James was baptised Formby in a Roman Cath church you would think they had to be married.

xx

Its possible Joseph & Alice married there

Interesting reading crew!!

There is a death in dec qtr 1894 W Dby rego
for an Edward Formby aged 54 yrs bn 1840c.

Tina

I know I am opening up a very old thread, but...

I have had correspondence from a distant relative in Tasmania, who has let me view her tree on Ancestry. She is related to a Joseph Formby, who married Alice Pye in 1834. Alice Pye is shown as a widow on the Banns, and was according to my tree, married to Nathanial Pye in 1920. However, records show that Nathanial Pye died in 1846, so puzzled how this could be.

The Edward Formby in this thread appears to be the son of Joseph Formby and Alice Pye (nee Orrett).

Any thoughts folks?

Johnny,

Have you looked into this burial?

Burial: 20 Mar 1832 St Thomas, Melling, Lancashire, England
Nathaniel Pye -
Age: 40 yrs
Abode: Liverpool
Buried by: Jas.Barnes
Register: Burials 1813 - 1836, Page 81, Entry 641
Source: LDS Film 1849660

The date would allow Alice to remarry as a widow.

"St Thomas and the Holy Rood was created in 1810 as a chapel of ease lying within the boundaries of the Ancient Parish of Halsall. The present church of St Thomas was built in 1835, Architect J W Casson, to replace the ancient Holy Rood chapelry which was demolished in 1834"

Halsall being his birthplace?, family grave perhaps?

Many thanks Bertie, that certainly looks a better bet. Doing the rounds of the ancestry sites now to research.

John

1841 census in Fleet St Lpool is Joseph Formby cowkeeper 30, Alice 35, Jas 6, Margt 3 and Edwd 1. Next to them are John Pye 15 app cab maker, Jane Pye 15, Hy 8. all born county. As you know ages were rounded off in this census. The 3rd page in this census starts at Hanover St. I hope this is of some help.

colette wrote:Hi Paul

I am wondering have you found the marriage of Joseph Formby & Alice Pye.

Reason i ask is Alice Orrett was married to Nathanial Pye in 1820 St James

They had

John Pye St Mary The Virgin West Derby 1821
Thomas Pye Holy Trin Wavertree 1822
Jane Pye Holy Trin Wav 1824
Nathanial Pye Holy Trin Wav 1826
Henry Pye Holy Trin Wav.. 1829
Henry Pye St Peters Lpool 1831

On the 1841 3 Pye kids are living with Joseph & Alice..

John, Jane & Henry Henry's birth year is 1833 and i think he has to be right another Henry reason is in 1857 theres an item in the Liverpool Mercury..about the death of Henry Pye aged 24..

He was living in Craven St with his Stepfather Joseph Formby.. he came home drunk and said he had been knocked down and complained of back pain.. he went to work for the next 5 days still having pain in his back..he eventualy went to the infirmary.. and died not long after of inflamation of the spine.
So being 24 in 1857 makes him born 1833.

What i am wondering is if you havent found the marriage of Joseph to Alice Pye.. then maybe they never married so Edward wouldnt have the surname Formby.. he may have Pye


xx

Hi all, coming in on the back of this post. I have 2 marriage Banns entries for Joseph Formby marrying Alice Pye (nee Orrett) on 6th April 1834 (2 years after her hubby Nathaniel died) at St. Philip's church Liverpool. He was a labourer and she was a widow. However, I can find no record at all on any ancestry site of them getting married. I took the document from the tree of a distant relative in Australia!

Thanks,

John

Hi Bert, thanks for the image. That is one of the 2 I have. Can I ask where you got it from? All of my searches came up blank, including Lancashire parish online records, which is where I got a lot of the ancestral Orrett info!

John

Marriage Record 1834 - Liverpool Original on Ancestry

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &ml_rpos=2

Marriage Record 1834 - Bishop's Transcript on Ancestry

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &ml_rpos=2


Blue

Thanks Blue and Bert, think I must be going mad

colette wrote:Hi Paul

I am wondering have you found the marriage of Joseph Formby & Alice Pye.

Reason i ask is Alice Orrett was married to Nathanial Pye in 1820 St James

They had

John Pye St Mary The Virgin West Derby 1821
Thomas Pye Holy Trin Wavertree 1822
Jane Pye Holy Trin Wav 1824
Nathanial Pye Holy Trin Wav 1826
Henry Pye Holy Trin Wav.. 1829
Henry Pye St Peters Lpool 1831

On the 1841 3 Pye kids are living with Joseph & Alice..

John, Jane & Henry Henry's birth year is 1833 and i think he has to be right another Henry reason is in 1857 theres an item in the Liverpool Mercury..about the death of Henry Pye aged 24..

He was living in Craven St with his Stepfather Joseph Formby.. he came home drunk and said he had been knocked down and complained of back pain.. he went to work for the next 5 days still having pain in his back..he eventualy went to the infirmary.. and died not long after of inflamation of the spine.
So being 24 in 1857 makes him born 1833.

What i am wondering is if you havent found the marriage of Joseph to Alice Pye.. then maybe they never married so Edward wouldnt have the surname Formby.. he may have Pye


xx

If anyone is researching the Formby family, and they lived in Little Crosby, then this site will be a great help. http://www.sunnyfields.freeserve.co.uk/
Regards
John[/url]I have also posted it in the useful website links.
Thanks
John