Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

If anyone with access to 1851 and 1861 and time to spare could look this one up, I'd be v.grateful:
William and Margaret Freeman, both about 40, were in Vine Street, Uxbridge, Middlesex in 1841 with children Mary Jane, George Thomas, Ellen Margaret and Susan aged 7 down to 2. William was a butcher.
The township might be Hillingdon.

Many thanks in advance.
Daggers

Grrrr transcribers! although I suppose the writing is very bad - for anybody else looking Freeman has been transcribed Youman
1851 - HO107; Piece: 1697; Folio: 247; Page: 2
All born Middlesex Uxbridge
Vine Street, Uxbridge, Middlesex
William Freeman Head M 40 Butcher
Margaret Wife M 40
Mary J daur 18
George T son 16 Butcher
Susan daur 12 Scholar
William son 9 "
Ellen M daur 7 "
Edmund son 5 "

1861 - RG9; Piece: 790; Folio: 53; Page: 7
District Middlesex County Lunatic Asylum Colney Hatch, Friern Barnet, Middlesex
Susan Freeman Unm 23 Attendant in Asylum Wards Uxbridge Middlesex

Mary
Amazing, as always!
The asylum link is most interesting as several of that clan did the same sort of job later.
Thank you once more.
D

The rest of the family aren't as easy to find in 1861, I'm now tramping the streets of Hillingdon knocking on doors

Hillingdon seems a nice place, there is actually a Vineyard at the end of Vine Street, also a William Gramshaw is the Town Crier, but have found that James Hunt is a new butcher in town, can't find the Freemans in 1861.

Will keep trying.

1871 District Brookwood Lunatic Asylum, Woking, Surrey
RG10; Piece: 808; Folio: 93; Page: 1
William Freeman Charge Attendant Mar 30 Attendant Middlesex Uxbridge

After your comment I thought this must be young William.

And again 1871
District Lunatic Asylum, St Mary Stratford Le Bow, London
George Thomas Freeman Attendant Mar 35 Attendant on Ward Uxbridge, Middlesex
RG10; Piece: 579; Folio: 108; Page: 1

Those are certainly part of the clan. William is the one we are most interested in, and he married as his first wife - guess who - a servant in yet another asylum, in Sussex this time.
The butcher and some of the others are elusive and do not seem to have died, according to FreeBMD!
I wonder if they went into one of the asylums, where the patients are often identified only by initials?
On we go...
D

Initials - Well there are a couple of vague possibles, but none who give their birthplace as Uxbridge/Hillingdon, although not all patients give a birthplace anyway. In 1861 there is a MF born about 1811 in Bow St Mary, no birthplace.

I must admit the handwriting for Hillingdon is so bad that they really could be there but not found.

I have a gut instinct about an 1871 entry

When I was searching for a marriage for Mary J I thought I came across a spouse with the surname Ayre/s and cross checked for a census entry without success, so I dismissed it.

Now I've found
66 Prebond Street, St Peters, Finsbury, Islington
Both born Uxbridge, Middlesex
Frederick HAYRES Head M 39 Labourer
Mary J HAYRES Wife M 37
RG10; Piece: 290; Folio: 67; Page: 34

and I can't find the marriage.

or maybe it was just the 1861 entry for them that I found and I'm confusing myself
13 Lemster Terrace, St Peters, Finsbury, Islington
Frederick Ayres Head M 29 Carman Middlesex Hillingdon
Mary J Wife M 25 " "
RG9; Piece: 149; Folio: 97; Page: 46

Now here's something ..... I think!!

1861 and you'll laugh at the address
No 23 Union Street is crossed through and above it reads "No Little Wonder", Aldershot, Surrey
Transcribed as Freman
William Head Mar 50 Beer House Keeper Uxbridge Middlesex
William W son 19 Servant crossed out and ditto as above " "
Edward son 15 Butcher " "
Mary Visitor Wid 44 Charwoman Beaconsfield Bucks
George Visitor 10 Uxbridge Middlesex
then comes a list of lodgers of various occupations including
George Freeman Lodger Unm 19 Grocer Reading Berks
(this George could be just coincidence as it doesn't match the son for age or birthplace)
RG9; Piece: 430; Folio: 104; Page: 17

Mary
Amazing results! You have a true detective's feel for the hunt - many thanks once more.
I've been out, so will have a long day tomorrow writing up all your findings.
D

Just don't bank on that 1871 entry for the H/Ayres as I have found no evidence of the marriage unfortunately, it may have been just a senior moment and the age and birthplace of Mary J matching.

Mary
I agree that your hunch on H/Ayres is for once not really supportable, and will leave it aside for now.
When you found Aldershot, did it really say 'Surrey'? - I always thought it was Hants, though parts of that area seem interchangeable.
I found a next generation of the bunch came to Toxteth Park area by 1881, so there may be more of them around, but 1891 might show more. This was
their ref in '81:
Edward & Jane Freeman + children - PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3640 Folio 96 Page 41.
Edward seems to switch between Edmund and Edward, depending on the writer but I think is the same man.
D

Strange to say, the County/Island information is noted as Surrey but then you know what some of these sites are, I wouldn't take it as gospel.

The Registration district is Farnham and the sub-Registration District is Frimley. The actual image itself only says Aldershot, so believe your own good sense I think.

Hang on a bit and I'll have a look for the 1891.

daggers wrote: Edward seems to switch between Edmund and Edward, depending on the writer but I think is the same man.

I noticed

That entry for 1881 helped with the 1871 entry, but not with Edward himself, I noticed that he was a butler in 1881, perhaps he was in the same sort of job in London and living in?

6 Charles Place, Kensington Town, London
Jane Freeman Wife M 31 Servant Middlesex London
Agnes daur 1 " "
RG10; Piece: 30; Folio: 31; Page: 56

for anybody else, this is the 1881 census
15 Thackeray Street, Toxteth Park
Edward Freeman Head M 35 Butler (Dom Serv) Middlesex Uxbridge
Jane Wife M 40 Middlesex London East
Agnes A daur 11 Scholar " "
Ellen A daur 9 " " "
May J daur 5 " London South
Mary Rose " 3 Lancashire Liverpool
George J son 11 months " "
RG11; Piece: 3640; Folio: 96; Page: 41

I wonder about this for 1891?
36 Elliott Street, Islington, LIverpool
Agnes Freeman Head S 21 Confectioner's Manager London
Marianne Hart Boarder S 26 " Assistant "
RG12; Piece: 2919; Folio 43; Page 34

I believe the family has scattered again, problematic in 1891

1901
41 Mansion House Street, South Hammersmith, London
Edward Freeman Boarder M 55 Nurse Attendant Sick Uxbridge Middlesex
RG13; Piece: 46; Folio: 72; Page: 12

Oh that 1891 was annoying me - transcribed Breeman!

14 Mill Street, Toxteth Park
Edward Freeman Head M 45 Auctioneer Middlesex N.Bridge
Jane Wife M 54 London Whitechapel
Ellen A daur S 19 Shop Assistant London Kensington
Mary S daur S 15 London Hammersmith
Mary R daur 13 Liverpool
Gilbert C son 8 Liverpool
RG12; Piece: 2924; Folio 105; Page 6

and would you believe Gilbert was transcribed as Gustaf!!