George Walker

Post by **c_wyatt** » 18 Sep 2009 01:45

Hi,

I'm currently researching my mums family history as a birthday present, and have managed to get back to her great granddad but here I have become stuck. I know that he was called George Walker, born 1835 in Cheshire, and married Elizabeth Jones in April, 1866. I have numerous census records from their life together but cannot seem to find any of George before his marriage. I know that both he and his father (also George) were boiler makers at the time of his marriage. Does anyone have any ideas as to a) why he wouldn't be on any previous census records or b) how I could narrow down any of the other George Walkers as being him without knowing his mother's name?

Any help would be greatly appreciated - I'm fairly new to this so am not sure where to go from here!!

Thanks,
Caroline

Post by **Tina** » 18 Sep 2009 06:38

Hello Caroline and welcome aboard on behalf of everyone having a sleep

For the peeps...George's birthplace is Winsford in 81/91 census living in Everton & the marriage was at Holy T Lpool.

Tina

later: Geo is 11 yrs older than his wife.

Post by **Tina** » 18 Sep 2009 08:00

Hiya
I've found this in 1861 census Blackburn

George Walker 24 boiler maker, Elizabeth 22, Sarah A 3 all born WINSFORD,Thomas 1 bn Birmingham.
RG9/3100/92/12

Note: 1871 Everton Geo's birthplace as Warnford.

1871 Sarah A servant in North Meols Ches.

Tina

Post by **Hilary** » 18 Sep 2009 10:42

Hi

You say George Walker married Elizabeth Jones in 1866 - I'm just wondering how you know this is the correct marriage. Do you have one of the children's birth certificates?

If the 1861 census Tina has found is the correct George this would imply (but not definitely) that he married before 1861.

Ed Officer

Post by **MaryA** » 18 Sep 2009 10:45

Hi and welcome to the forum.

You will need to confirm that Tina's finds are correct as it's good for us to know his movements.

I'm suspecting that you are searching the earlier censuses - ie 1851 and 1841 for him in Winsford, but if you were to search for any name in Winsford you will see that it wasn't listed. I don't suppose it was missed out, but it was probably enumerated by a different name.

His birth might have just missed Civil Registration so can I suggest that you check a few sites that have baptisms listed online, such as http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/ or if you look at http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/ you will see that Over/Winsford appear to be listed together, so maybe that would be the place to look.

Post by **Hilary** » 18 Sep 2009 10:50

Having looked at the census entries I'm wondering if George was mmarried twice. The wife on the 1861 is much closer to his age, the wife in 1866 is about 10 years younger.

Please could you post all the details from his marriage certificate and his father's occupation as this will help to find him in earlier censuses

Ed Office

Post by **Hilary** » 18 Sep 2009 10:54

I think this could be your man in 1851

HO107 2166 folio 104 page 14

Over Cheshire (thisis next door to Winsford
George Walker 51 pansmith ( I think that's what it says)
Sarah wife 36
James 16
George 14
Aaron 11
Owen 8
Moses 5
Enoch 3
all born Over except for mother and her birthplace could be Altrincham

Ed Officer

PS Enoch appears in 1861 with his parents father's occupation given as pansmith, mother Sarah given as born Alpraham Cheshire

Post by **Hilary** » 18 Sep 2009 11:02

1841 census Over Lane Over

Geo Walker 35 pansmith
Sarah 25
Thomas 15
James 6
Geo 4
Aaron

I suspect sarah is George's second wife.

I found this entry by searching under Aaron Walker.

Incidentally Aaron also shows later in Blackburn

Ed Officer

Post by **c_wyatt** » 18 Sep 2009 11:09

Thanks for all of your help

I was actually given the marriage information by somebody also researching my family so they may have made a mistake, but I thought when I checked that it looked correct. On the certificate the George's condition states 'Bachelor' - would this be the same if he had already been married? It states that he was living in Guard Street, and that his father George Walker was also a boiler maker.

From what I have found he had 6 children:
Agnes b. 1866
George b. 1868
James b. 1870
Elizabeth b. 1873
Sarah b. 1875
William b. 1878 (my great grandad)

Thanks again,
Caroline

Post by **MaryA** » 18 Sep 2009 11:12

Hi EO, I just amended my post above since on looking at the CheshireBMD site it would appear that births for the area are listed as Over/Winsford.

Post by **Hilary** » 18 Sep 2009 11:13

If George Walker's occupation ties in with your other information you can find more on the family

www.familysearch.org

On this site go to search records, then scroll down to record search pilot and open that bit, then search for George Walker in Over Cheshire

You will find he married Sarah Moulton and also George Walker's christening in 1837.

If this is the correct Walker family in depth study of the Over Parish registers seems a good idea. You will fin them on film at Cheshire Record office in Chester. If you can't get there your nearest LDS Family History centre could order in the film you want (costs about £7) and you could view it there.

There is also references on the Cheshire Parish Register Project (mind you I find this difficult to use but that's probably just me!)

Hope this helps

Ed Officer

Post by **c_wyatt** » 18 Sep 2009 11:26

That's great - thanks! I've never used the record search pilot before but looks really useful so thanks for the tip. Will also look into finding an LDS History centre too and having a look through.

Thanks again for all of your help

Caroline

Post by **Tina** » 18 Sep 2009 11:30

Here's 1881

80 Radcliffe St Everton

George Walker 46 bn Winsord boiler/rivetter shipyard
Elizabeth 35,George 13, James 11, Elizabeth 8, Sarah F 6, William H 1 yr all bn Lpool.

Tina

Post by **Hilary** » 18 Sep 2009 15:31

I would recommend you got your father's birth certificate to make sure of his mother's maiden name. If that's Jones you know you're on the right lines but it doesn't explain the 1861 census that Tina found.

Have fun sorting it all out!

Ed Officer

Post by **Hilary** » 18 Sep 2009 15:36

Just had a thought maybe George and Elizabeth weren't married in the 1861 census but were living together. If the later ages are correct she would have been rather young in 1861 about 16 so maybe they married when she was 21 years in 1866.

Ed Officer

Post by **Tina** » 19 Sep 2009 00:30

Hi folks
Elizabeth 1861 bn Winsford, Elizabeth 1881 etc bn Lpool. Both had daughters Sarah.

Ches BMD Sarah Ann Walker 1857 Winsford (Ches West)
Free BMD Northwich rego sep qtr.

Ches BMD marr George Walker to Elizabeth Sandbach St Wilfred's Davenham (Ches West)
Free BMD Northwich rego jul qtr.

1864 Blackburn there's a death for an Elizabeth Walker.

I've found an Elizabeth Sandbach 18 servant bn Davenham in 51 & with her family in 1841.

Agnes Walker bn 1866 missing from 81, possibly in Everton niece/nurse for Noble family.

off topic, I've "been" to this entry before looking for Bloors for someone, salt makers. Elzbth parents are George & mother Sarah nee Bloor!! married in Davenham which is just up the road from Winsford.

Back later

Tina

Post by **Tina** » 19 Sep 2009 00:50

Me again
I looked up the marriage for Noble. (where Agnes Ann was listed as their niece in 81)
Hugh Thomas Noble to Annie JONES...1871

Got the correct Annie in 1871 as Hugh was their lodger. Both Jones parents born in Wales.
If I can find Annie & Elzbth together

Tina

Post by **c_wyatt** » 19 Sep 2009 01:21

Yeh that would make sense...would it be normal to live together before marriage in those days or a bit of a scandal?! I can't find out what a Pansmith is (think it is possible to do with the salt industry) but there seems to be quite a few people who were both pan smiths and boiler makers so hopefully this is the same person as on the marriage certificate so thanks

Post by **c_wyatt** » 19 Sep 2009 01:22

Just in case anyone else is interested in the future, I just found this definition:

Pan-smith: (Open pan). Originally, a man who physically made the pans for making salt in. In very early days they might be made of lead. Later they were made of iron. In the 19th century they were constructed of iron plates rivetted together. These would vary in size and thickness depending on their final position in the saltpan: if they were to be directly over the heat from the furnace, they were smaller and thicker.

Post by **c_wyatt** » 19 Sep 2009 01:42

Just seen your info Tina, missed it earlier. Thanks so much for all of the effort!!

Just to clarify...are you thinking that George (b. 1837) was firstly married to Elizabeth Sandbach who then died in 1864, and he then remarried Elizabeth Jones? Am getting a bit confused, would definately have missed all of this without your help!!