Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I need help with my great grandmother Margaret Jane Hawkins' history. What I know is that her father''s name was Thomas and that he was a sailor. She married William Davies June 13, 1886 and had 6 children, one of which was my grandmother, Annie. William died in 1896? Have no certificate. Two of the children were sent to the Bluecoat orphanage. Margaret Jane then went to work and later married James Rigby and had a son, James. In 1903 Margaret Jane was sent to the Rainhill hospital and three of her children were sent to a sheltering home then to Canada. I cannot find Margaret Jane and her parents on any census. I do not know if she had any siblings or where they lived. On her wedding certificate the witnesses were her father and a Mary Jane Davies. Any information will be greatly appreciated. Joyce

Hi

How old was she when she married - we need a birthyear to try and trace her

Do you have her on the 1891/1901 census - what was her birthplace as the only birth entry in Lancs was 1861 in Manchester but there is an 1864 in Tynemouth

If you don't have those census entries - can you give us some of the children's names and birthyears so we can try and find her

Hi Carole
Margaret J is 33 in 1901 bn Lpool living in Tox Pk.
There is a family in 1881 Margt E right age, but in 1871 father is Wm living in W'tree.

Tina

Have deleted the other post.

In the absence of a date in the post I am wondering if this could be M's birth. She would have been only (sweet?) 16 when she married though, but it fits with the 1901 census entry YoB that Tina found. It's the only M.. J.. Hawkins from 1865 to 1870.

Births Jun 1870:
Hawkins, Margaret Jane - Skipton - 9a - 43.

Cheers,
Dickiesam

I think if we had Annie's birthdate confirmed we might know if we have the right family, then the marriage certificate is needed.

I think the family you are all meaning is very enlightening in the 1891 census, if I have the right ones - Everybody born Liverpool except where stated.
4/25 Ct Grafton Street, Toxteth Park
William Davies Head M 24 Carter
Margaret J Wife M 22
Elizabeth C daur 4
Annie daur 2
Bessie daur 7 months

next door 2/24 Court Grafton Street, is a
Richard Davies Head M 67 Horse Keeper Groom Shropshire Oswestry
Ellen Wife M 57 Shropshire Oswestry
Joseph son S 21 Carter
Samuel son S 19 Steam Hammer Driver (Smith)
Henry son S 17 Horse Keeper (Assistant)

and also 5/25 Court Grafton Street
Charles Davies Head M 31 Carter
Mary A Wife M 27
RG12; Piece: 2931; Folio 89; Page 3

They could all be related.

Thanks for the quick reply. Margaret Jane was 19 when she married William Davies. The witness' were Thomas Hawkins, her father and a Mary Jane Davies, relationship unknown. On marriage certificate it states that she was living at 10 House 25th Court, Grafton Street. In the 1901 census she is now married to James Bentley Rigby. Her children with William are: Elizabeth (born May 10, 1887) Annie (born 23 Dec. 1888) Bessie (born Aug.30, 1890) William (born Feb 2, 1892) Emily (born Mar. 1, 1894) and Samuel (born Sept. 9, 1896) Elizabeth and Annie went to the Bluecoat Orphanage in 1896 and 1897 respectively. In 1903 Emily, William and Samuel were sent to a sheltering home because Margaret Jane had been sent to Rainhill Hospital and in 1904 were sent to Quebec, Canada. The family that Mary A found is the right one. The people living next door are William's parents and one of his brothers. Joyce

Hello Joycebibi,
Assuming that the age given on her marriage cert to William D is correct within a year or two, and the fact that she was consistent about being born in Liverpool, these are the only Margaret H births in Lancs 1867 to 1869. Ignoring the missing J(ane) I'd order the Liverpool one and specify her father Thomas as a GRO Reference Point. If it's the wrong Index Reference the GRO will only charge you £4 instead of £7 for a wrong cert.

Births Sep 1867: Hawkins, Margaret - Chorlton - 8c - 569.
Births Mar 1869: Hawkins, Margaret - Liverpool - 8b - 104.
Births Dec 1869: Hawkins, Margaret Emma - Manchester - 8d - 266.

Out of interest, was Rainhill still the 'County Lunatic Asylum' in 1903? A g.g.father of mine died there in 1878 but he wasn't a lunatic just incurably ill with a brain disease. How do you know that is where she was and have you been able to get her medical records from the LRO?
Cheers,
Dickiesam

Hi

Closest I can get to Thomas, Sailor, is this one

in 1881
RG11; Piece: 3642; Folio: 37; Page: 1
3 David Street Toxteth Park
Thomas Hawkins 43 Master Mariner
Mary Jane Hawkins 37
Emily Hawkins 16
Annie Hawkins 13
Mary F.G. Hawkins 10
Thomas H.L. Hawkins 8
Charles E.A. Hawkins 6
Mary Dowling 71

Was hoping the entry for Mary F G could be some sort of mistranscription but doesn't look like it, unless the enumerator got it wrong And it wouldn't be the first time we've had ancestors using a different name to that they were baptised with, would it Mary, Colette

1871
43 Pimhill Street
RG10; Piece: 3806; Folio: 67; Page: 19
Name Age
Mary Jane Hawkins 27 husband away at sea
Emily Hawkins 6
Annie Hawkins 3
Maris Francis Hawkins 1

The names Emily and Annie are there that Margaret called her own children also 'Jane' also middle name of mum.. coincidences maybe

(Charles E A Hawkins is aboard ship in 1901)

Simone x

Later- 1888- William Brereton m Mary F Hawkins Everton St Crysostom

1901 census RG13; Piece: 3436; Folio: 56; Page: 13
52 Miles? St
Name Age
William Brereton 36
Mary F G Brereton 31 b at sea, birth reg Ireland
Mary F Brereton 11
Edith G Brereton 9
William Brereton 7
Alfred Brereton 5

Oh well, perhaps we could turn Annie into margaret then

Just a thought... this family were obviously at sea when daughter Mary born, birth reg in Ireland, .. could Margaret have been born at sea also and maybe her birth reg in Ireland too... Perhaps she is with relatives elsewhere on earlier census

Sorry in advance if all this wrong just bugging me that he is a Mariner and family names follow through

Simone x

birth record reads a bit confusing but words to the effect

birth - for voyage 26/8/1869 to 13/9/1870 - my wife MaryJane of a daughter, signed Thomas Hawkins, Master=


no name mentioned

Hi all
Margaret is consistent with her age, birthplace & middle initial.
Is it possible Thomas Hawkins was her stepfather?
Or was her natural father whom her mother never married?
Birth rego under her mother's maiden name?

Just thinking out loud

Tina

Hi Tina

I was thinking that too Mary Jane's surname was Dowling. They married before she was born though

1862
HAWKINS Thomas DOWLING Mary J Liverpool, St. Martin Liverpool 2114LP/4/66

Perhaps they are nothing to do with her at all then

Simone x

Thanks for all this information. I was wondering is it possible to find out who else was living at 10 house 25 court Grafton Street in 1886? This is the address that was on Margaret Jane's marriage certificate. Is it possible to get medical history from Rainhill? If so how do I go about it? Joyce

There are a number of our members who have copies of directories for various years - see the lists on the For Posterity Board. Jan and Erika seem to have the nearest at 1881.

Your alternative is to check the directories held at the Liverpool Record Office where there may be some for nearer the date.

I did try searching Grafton Street in the 1881 census but without success - you can do this yourself even without a subscription at www.ancestry.co.uk and choosing the Free Index 1881 census, putting "Grafton" in the streetname and choosing to Search Lancashire.

As mentioned above I was successful, eventually, in getting copies of my g.g.father's medical records and the 1878 autopsy report from the LRO.

When I first enquired at the LRO I was told I had to apply to Whiston Hospital to secure permission for access and 'prove' to their satisfaction that I was a direct line descendant. As far as I know, other than professional medical researchers, only direct descendants can see the records. I was fortunate in that living in Ireland I couldn't travel to the LRO so an SKP there took digital photographs and sent them to me. The staff were extremely helpful.

I suggest giving them a ring or even an enquiry email.
Cheers,
Dickiesam

Wonder if Margaret was some sort of relative/friend who considered Thomas and Mary as good as parents

It's a while since I have posted a image. Hope I've done it right!

This is the image from the Births at Sea records that Simone found:
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And this is the island of St Guanape, off the coast of Peru, where the ship was at anchor, presumably, when the birth took place.
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Cheers,
Dickiesam

simone wrote:Hi Tina

I was thinking that too Mary Jane's surname was Dowling. They married before she was born though

1862
HAWKINS Thomas DOWLING Mary J Liverpool, St. Martin Liverpool 2114LP/4/66

Perhaps they are nothing to do with her at all then

Simone x

I am transcribing St Martins Marriage records at the moment and have the record for this marriage. Do you have the certificate? I can send it to you if not.

I have had a look in Grafton Street and courts on the 1881, on the familysearch site, there is nobody Hawkins listed there, the nearest I can get is 10 house 5 court Grafton Street. That is on RG11 3634 16 29.

I looked in the 1881 directory and looked at some names in Grafton Street, then went to the familysearch site and had a look page by page.

Jan