Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all,

Don't worry it's not those Montrose's I'm on about again!!!!

Whilst trying to trace a Thomas Noble Birchall b.1824 in Liverpool I find he was married twice. The first time to Betsy Evans at St Philip's Liverpool in 1844 and the second time to Frances Cooper at St Nicholas on 26th December 1852. He is recorded as a Widower on his marriage to Frances so Betsy must have died somewhere between 1844 and 1852. While I was 'fishing' around on Ancesrtry I went on the criminal trial records site and found a Thomas Noble was aquitted of manslaughter in 1850 in the County of Lancaster and that's about all the information I can gather from that site.

I could not find Thomas and Frances on the U.K 1861 census and then noticed on the 1871 census that their eldest child Thomas was born in Glasgow Scotland in 1856. Their second born Arebella was born in Liverpool in 1858. So, Thomas and Frances must have moved from Liverpool to Scotland somewhere between 1853 and 1856 and returned to Liverpool somewhere between 1856 and 1858.

It's possible Thomas may have moved to Scotland soon after his second marriage because of the stigma attached to the manslaughter charge, assuming of course it's the same Thomas Birchall!

Does anyone have any idea how I can obtain more information on the case of Thomas Birchall Aquitted of manslaughter in the County of Lancaster in 1850? I've tried the Liverpool Mercury on line for that period and not been able to find anything.

Any Help or advice would be most appreciated.

Roy Montrose

p.s I'm not mentioning the Everton .v. Arsenal Result!!!

Hello Roy,
Was wondering if the manslaughter charge might have been connected to Thomas' first wife. Like, did she fall or was she pushed....
I couldn't find a death of a Betsy Birchall from 1844 to 1850 county-wide and found only find two deaths using BET*. Got two Bettys. One was in Wigan and too late in 1850 to be her but the other one might be her and mis-transcribed from the old hand-written document. Deaths Dec 1847: Birchall, Betty - Leigh - 21 - 403.

Cheers,
Dickiesam

Hi dickiesam,

Thanks for looking for me, as I say it's a long shot really. I've been unable to find a death for a Betsy Birchall around that time but quite a few for Elizabeth Birchall in the Lancashire area. I'll try and get Thomas and Betsy's marriage details next time I go to Liverpool R.O. and see what her Christian name was when she married, that may give me an idea if she was in fact Elizabeth or not. Next step I suppose is to try and get her death certificate and see what that shows,

regards,

Roy Montrose

Hi,
Just rechecked the marriage and this is on FreeBMD.
Marriages Jun 1844:
Birchall, Thomas Noble - Liverpool - 20 - 332.
Evans, Betsy - Liverpool - 20 - 332.

I checked the actual GRO typed page and she is still Betsy. But she could have been born Betty or Elizabeth. We are what we choose to be known as.... Also checked this on Findmypast with same result.
Dickiesam

Hi Roy

Lpool Mercury Death

16th March 1852 Betsy Birchall youngest Daughter of the Late Thomas Evans Cooper of this town.

So Thomas didnt wait too long did he ??

I too cant find the family in 1861..but should be in Liverpool going by other kids births..

xx

1861 St Andrews St Lpool

Thos Burchell Plasterer
Francis Burchell
Thos Burchell
Arabella Burchell
Fred'k Burchell

xx

Hi Colette,

Thanks for the info. The fact that Betsy Birchall died in 1852 rubbish's my theory that the Thomas Birchall in court in 1850 for Manslaughter is not my Thomas Birchall. The strange thing is though, the Death entry does not mention her Husband only her Father who was deceased?

Another unusual fact I've uncovered is that Betsy was Baptised on 24th February 1844 at St Peters Liverpool, she also married in 1844. Betsy was born in 1823 which means she was 21 years old when she was Baptised and she married Thomas?

regards,

Roy

Hi Roy,
Re:

The fact that Betsy Birchall died in 1852 rubbish's my theory that the Thomas Birchall in court in 1850 for manslaughter is not my Thomas Birchall.

I think your theory still hangs up there. It could still have been him and accused of 'doing' someone else or causing their death. Need to find more details of the trial. Aren't these records kept up in Lancaster?

Dickiesam

I posted a lot of links about finding your criminal ancestors online here
http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=7371
Unfortunately since he was acquitted you probably won't have any luck, however, you might find the locations of some of the quarter sessions documents etc. I thought many of them would have been in Liverpool.